Student shoved and accosted over pledge.

[Stevicus]

What really baffles me about cases like this is that, in states I'm familiar with, getting a teaching certificate requires at least a four-year university degree. I know in Arizona, you're also required to have a certain number of units in the topic of school law, where prospective teachers learn where the legal boundaries are, such as the separation of church and state, as well as the non-requirement of saying the Pledge.

I knew I wasn't required to say the Pledge when I was in 8th grade, so how is it that a teacher, supposedly with at least a bachelor's degree, would not know this?

I don't know what's worse - a fascist teacher or a teacher who is so incredibly clueless and stupid as to not even know that they're being fascist. Is that what we would call an inadvertent or "Accidental Fascist"?

 

[ChristineM]

Hit a student....the student should hit back,
with an equalizer, eg, table, chair, slide rule.
(Dang....show'n me age there.)

Personal story, just started secondary school, sitting in maths class twiddling my thumbs because i couldn't read the board. The teacher was prowling, as he passed me he rapped my knuckles with the edge of his ruler. Before he could comment I reached up, grabbed his tie and yanked hard pulling his head down to smack into the desk.

No more was said about it

 

[Left Coast]

American Jehovah's Witnesses have been abstaining from saying the pledge for decades. My dad was one, in the 1950s and 60s. It's absurd that it's even an issue. If people don't want to say it, leave them alone.

 

[VoidCat]

A 9th grade student(who is a child might I add) shouldn't be assualted by a teacher(a fully grown adult) especially over something as mild as the pledge.

 

[F1fan]

None of our usual conservative voices have weighed in on this, yet.

The party of "family values" (which they have dropped since Trump was nominated) is likely thinking they need to drop being the party of "liberty".

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Rather than the Pledge, I've preferred the Oath of Office...here is the legislative version (they differ for house, senate, President, vice-president, and appointed offices)...

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

I personally drop the last clause, and make it "discharge the duties of citizenship"

That's because I agree that I'm a citizen and that I do have responsibilities toward my nation, and that the institution of the government under the Constitution is that...

 

[Stevicus]

I guess I might take this pledge.

 

[Stevicus]

I know I've posted this before, but it's just too funny not to repeat.

 

[Secret Chief]

None of our usual conservative voices have weighed in on this, yet.

Can I help?

People SHOULD be patriotic and SHOULD love to pledge their allegiance to the greatest country on Earth. If they don't love the US they should get the hell out and move to another country, all of which are socialist.

 

[Stevicus]

 

[Stevicus]

Here's a scene which is kind of like the pledge of allegiance on steroids.

 

[Alien826]

A story from the 1960s, in England.

At the time, the program in movie theaters would end with a picture of the Queen on the screen and playing the National Anthem. Some people would try to get out before it started, because everyone would stand up for the Anthem and they had to wait to leave. This is long past, they don't do that any more.

An Irish friend expressed great indignation over it. "In Ireland" he said, "anyone trying to leave during the anthem would be pushed to the floor and someone would stand on his neck to keep him there". It puzzled me that he should get so worked up over something that I felt to be trivial. Then I realized that it wasn't all that long ago that the Irish freed their country (most of it) from British rule. Nationalism was very important to them.

I wonder though, why the USA hasn't got fed up with it as we in England did? It's been a long time since there was any serious threat to the country.

 

[Stevicus]

I wonder though, why the USA hasn't got fed up with it as we in England did? It's been a long time since there was any serious threat to the country.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Here in America, we are surrounded by enemies. We have enemies all over the world that threaten our way of life. The enemy is insidious, attacking both from without and within. The enemy is among us, hiding, waiting for a chance to strike when we least expect. That's why Americans want guns, to be able to quickly deal with enemies and other varmints which might pop up. It's also why they insist everyone say the pledge, as a way of proving that they're not some commie-heathen-atheist-enemy of America who is out to destroy us and our way of life.

But the problem isn't that America has too many enemies. It's not enough enemas.

 

[Alien826]

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Here in America, we are surrounded by enemies. We have enemies all over the world that threaten our way of life. The enemy is insidious, attacking both from without and within. The enemy is among us, hiding, waiting for a chance to strike when we least expect. That's why Americans want guns, to be able to quickly deal with enemies and other varmints which might pop up. It's also why they insist everyone say the pledge, as a way of proving that they're not some commie-heathen-atheist-enemy of America who is out to destroy us and our way of life.

You shouldn't be so exceptional! The greatest country that has ever been in the history of the universe, or ever will be! No wonder other lesser countries envy you so much! And because they can never hope to be as amazingly wonderful as you are they try to tear you down to their level.

But the problem isn't that America has too many enemies. It's not enough enemas.

 

[Valjean]

Can I help?

People SHOULD be patriotic and SHOULD love to pledge their allegiance to the greatest country on Earth. If they don't love the US they should get the hell out and move to another country, all of which are socialist.

So the Kommandant and soldiers at Auschwitz were doing the right and moral thing, having pledged allegiance to their Folk und Führer?
NO! Humans are born free and independent agents, with freedom of conscience and allegiance. We are not owned by any master, organization or state.

Where one is born is a roll of the dice, and entails no duty of allegiance to the power currently dominating the region.

Do the Crips [criminal gang] have the right to demand loyalty and support from people living on their 'turf'? Can they conscript you to assist in a hit against the neighboring Bloods, two blocks to the East?
How would this be any different from a country expecting allegiance, but for size?

Allegiance to the dominant power in a region -- patriotism -- has resulted in countless wars, strife and suffering. Two perfect strangers, both being patriotic and ostensibly 'doing the right thing', try to kill each other, in the name of God & Country, with the Lord's blessing on each of them.

A pledge of allegiance is a loyalty oath; an agreement to support an individual or government no matter what it does, or how it changes. Whether it goes Communist, Nazi, theocratic, or whatever.

Once you've recited the oath you're morally bound to ""just follow orders," no matter how heinous or criminal they are, or whether they're congruent with your personal or religious values. Patriotism and the loyalty oath requires compliance. You become a tool. Youve abdicated your moral agency. Your leader or state has taken your sins upon itself, and become your savior.

Are there moral hierarchies? Does loyalty to family trump loyalty to community? Does state law trump federal law? Does God's law or conscience trump federal law?
If your sergeant says "turn left," your captain says "turn right", your major, "straight ahead," and your God/conscience "go home," what is your moral duty?

In my opinion, loyalty to anything but one's own conscience is pernicious. We are all individually responsible for our actions. Abdication of moral agency is immoral.
Loyalty to anything but principle is immoral, IMHO.

Galatians 3:28 denounces patriotism. We are all brothers

 

[Valjean]

Can I help?

People SHOULD be patriotic and SHOULD love to pledge their allegiance to the greatest country on Earth. If they don't love the US they should get the hell out and move to another country, all of which are socialist.

What makes the US the "greatest country on Earth?"
You haven't traveled much, have you?

Name a single metric, other than military might, where the US is on top -- or even in the top ten.

We're not that prosperous.
We're not that safe.
We're not that free.
We're not that healthy.
We're not that educated.
We're not that secure.
We're not that happy.

 

[Valjean]

Ngl, the American pledge of allegiance has always looked rather cult like and straight out of a dystopian novel. It’s a little creepy.
I understand if you’re swearing some kind of allegiance to your country in a specific ceremony. A Memorial Day thing, or becoming a citizen or whatever.
But every day at school, like I see on TV?
That’s a bit…..odd

No offence

The American pledge is frequently commented on by foreigners, as is our adulation of the military and proliferation of flags and patriotic symbols.
The only comparable situation, in recent memory, was in 1930's Germany.

 

[wandering peacefully]

Our town starts it's meetings with the pledge. I always stop reciting when it gets to the under God bs.then finish with liberty, etc. I'm the only one. I can imagine a few town folk not approving...too bad!

 

[Sand Dancer]

What makes the US the "greatest country on Earth?"
You haven't traveled much, have you?

Name a single metric, other than military might, where the US is on top -- or even in the top ten.

We're not that prosperous.
We're not that safe.
We're not that free.
We're not that healthy.
We're not that educated.
We're not that secure.
We're not that happy.

Teen pregnancies?

 

[ChristineM]

What makes the US the "greatest country on Earth?"
You haven't traveled much, have you?

Name a single metric, other than military might, where the US is on top -- or even in the top ten.

We're not that prosperous.
We're not that safe.
We're not that free.
We're not that healthy.
We're not that educated.
We're not that secure.
We're not that happy.

It's old, statistical may have changed slightly, but i think its still relevant