Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
We can't even put but a little scratch in nature. Nature can scratch, too.
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Subservience? (Religion)
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
Yeah, kind of - though I'm not sure I'd frame this in a way that suggests humans are somehow not nature. Humans are nature. They came from the gods and they are gods in their own right. And like all things, they have their place. Acting beyond one's domain can have interesting consequences. Sometimes it is wonderful and courageous and amazing, other times it is abject stupidity and foolery.
A god we can imprison in a literal bottle. Go us, I guess.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
Well, I suppose a meteor wasn’t enough to wipe out life on earth. But who knows; technology advances faster than human morality.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
I mean, the pollution of the seas is more than just a scratch, is it not?
Perhaps, but we're paying for it more than She.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
No. All we're doing is jeopardizing our own well-being, and thousands of other species. Even after the last great extinction event nature rebounded. That impact was worse than what we have had to offer so far. We are likely capable of destroying ourselves.
If you want to be cynical about the power of the Spirits of Technology and Science, as well as the Spirits whose essence was borrowed to make something as magical as sunscreen, go you, I guess. I find it pretty awesome.
Yeah, and there will be a lot of collateral. But, taking a step back and being less anthropocentric about it, it's not like mass extinction events haven't happened before. And they will happen again. When nature is the entire universe, I'm pretty confident saying beyond any reasonable doubt that humans are absolutely incapable of annihilating the universe (aka, nature). Or even really a fraction of a hair of a particle of it. As far as we know, matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. We'd just change it, not vanish nature and the universe from existence.
Madsaac
Active Member
Once you call something like the sun, god, then are you creating an imbalance, a subservience as you call it, between human and the wider universe. I don't think the sun is god, however it still demands my respect for what it is, a ball of gas that's essential for life, no need for god status.
Even though the sun and the universe created us, do we not have as much right to exist as they do?
And if humans are subservient, then are all animals?
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It sounds like you believe in some connotations to the word "subservient" that I do not as I don't understand what "right to exist" has to do with anything. All things are able to exist through an interconnected web of interdependencies and relationships, some of which always include subservience. And all "god status" means is that something is deemed worthy of worship. I'm not sure what is more worthy of worship than the deep respect demanded of that upon which we depend for our very existence, but that's why I'm Pagan.
In as much as we are subject to the laws of Nature and Fate, which the Gods uphold, we are "subservient". We can never overcome Nature. But they must obey the Law, too. However, I get that you're ranting about a certain form of American fundamentalist or evangelical Christianity and that just isn't my frame of reference. Hopefully you move past this angry stage soon because I know it's not a fun place to be in.
Madsaac
Active Member
I thought the tone of the OP referred to humans, being servants to god or a higher power. And servants quite often do not have the same rights as a higher power? And we may be servants to the universe but it did create us?
How come you don't worship the essential elements, for example. Or the blackhole in the middle of the Milky Way. Or the Theory of Evolution. Or gravity. (Maybe you already worship these things, so apologies if you do)
Is it because pagans were not aware of these things, which our very existence does depend upon?
Or can pagans just pick and choose what they want to believe?
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Says a fleeting speck of nothing dust in a minute speck of time, in an infinite creation, with incalculable number of universes.
Go for it you have all the power of nothing and 100% subservient to your ultimate fate.
How's That?
Regards Tony
No. I don't work for them. They work for me.
Who am I to say? Each person has their own needs with regard to how they interact with their personal god(s).
I disagree. In cases where prayer is a petition, asking for help or guidance when one is in need is not accepting defeat. However, often prayer is an expression of gratitude or a simply conversation between a deity and a human. That's hardly an acceptance of defeat.
Madsaac
Active Member
Are you saying 'what will be, will be'?
Or its already decided for you?
Or both?
I think you think too little of yourself.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
Do you believe in predestination?
I suppose there's different ways to interpret it. The OP certainly had a particular notion in mind for what subservience means and this is not universal or shared by all of those who accept the gods as part of their lifeways. Unsurprisingly, relationships humans have with the gods are complicated and varied just like any other relationship type they might have. Part of the point of theistic religion is to learn to navigate those relationships in a way that is appropriate for the individual in question. How do we connect to the gods?
Paganisms aren't really about what is believed. It's not some thought experiment, it's a lived religion with relationships developed from direct experience with the gods. Like any other relationships, really - if you want to get to know someone, you spend time with them. And like any other relationships, you absolutely pick and choose who you want to develop relationships with. Because relationships are highly personal, sometimes very intimate, and you don't exactly want to have a strong relationship with everything and everyone. You make it sound like a bad thing that polytheism is flexible and doesn't demand weird restrictions on relationships.
In my deepest meditative states, I am no longer there, but That is. Thus, That is the foundational core essence on which I am constructed or overlaid....like topping over a cake. Hence I am ontologically subservient to That...as are all things that are, was or ever will be.
But I am not sure that is what you are asking.