Subservience? (Religion)

[an anarchist]

But I am not sure that is what you are asking.

You answered my question regardless, thank you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think you think too little of yourself.

Unfortunately, you are not aware of what I am thinking, or ot could be you are very fortunate you do not know.

Baha'u'llah gave us quite an interesting vision of who we are.

"Likewise, reflect upon the perfection of man’s creation, and that all these planes and states are folded up and hidden away within him.

Dost thou deem thyself a small and puny form,
When thou foldest within thyself the greater world?

We must therefore labour to destroy the animal condition, till the meaning of humanity cometh to light."

Baha'u'llah — The Call of the Divine Beloved

Regards Tony

 

[SalixIncendium]

Unfortunately, you are not aware of what I am thinking, or ot could be you are very fortunate you do not know.

So your thoughts are not aligned with what you wrote?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you believe in predestination?

Good question. I beleive we have been given free will in this life to make choices. We can choose eternal life or we can choose death in remaining ignorant of what we really are.

This is where it is tricky, God knows all our choices and God's plan includes them all. That is why God sends Messengers and warns us of the results of our choices.

We have been warned and given enough detail to know that our choices will end in the wars that we wage against each other and that great destruction will result.

Big topic, our choices open or close our perception of what can be and what is currently happening.

Regards Tony

 

[osgart]

There's a way of life I'm very committed to, and from it I give higher power to it. I don't think the reality of life on Earth is conducive to following a higher power. Earth is a severe survival game with no real purpose to it with a brute natural world. My higher power exists only in principle that can be realized in human beings if they knew and chose it. I feel like there are some non religious people out there that have at heart the selfless and self caring way. Eternal doom religions I will never submit to such selfish cruelty, blindness and delusion.

A higher power is meant to lift people up to a higher level of living. So subservience does not enter into it. I submit not subserve. Contrarians to my way of life I have very little patience toward as they only care for themselves and self gain.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So your thoughts are not aligned with what you wrote?

One can transcend the statement that was offered.

Regards Tony

 

[Madsaac]

I suppose there's different ways to interpret it. The OP certainly had a particular notion in mind for what subservience means and this is not universal or shared by all of those who accept the gods as part of their lifeways. Unsurprisingly, relationships humans have with the gods are complicated and varied just like any other relationship type they might have. Part of the point of theistic religion is to learn to navigate those relationships in a way that is appropriate for the individual in question. How do we connect to the gods?


Paganisms aren't really about what is believed. It's not some thought experiment, it's a lived religion with relationships developed from direct experience with the gods. Like any other relationships, really - if you want to get to know someone, you spend time with them. And like any other relationships, you absolutely pick and choose who you want to develop relationships with. Because relationships are highly personal, sometimes very intimate, and you don't exactly want to have a strong relationship with everything and everyone. You make it sound like a bad thing that polytheism is flexible and doesn't demand weird restrictions on relationships.

No, no I don’t it’s a bad thing, just trying to understand what Paganism is. If I was to practice something, it might be paganism. I like the idea of looking after nature. And it certainly seems not to harbour some of those weird social thoughts like ‘right’ Christianity.

And I thought you had to worship the sun, moon etc or certain gods but if you can worship other things that are related to the world and universe then that’s good.

However, I’m not sure, if I’d be that way inclined to find appreciation with the wonders of the universe.

 

[Quintessence]

And I thought you had to worship the sun, moon etc or certain gods but if you can worship other things that are related to the world and universe then that’s good.

Yup, polytheism is flexible - whatever you want to honor and respect in your life. Some polytheists feel they have a particular cultural obligation and will only honor gods from certain regions of the world or certain historical pantheons. Some will let whatever speaks to them just flow through their lives and honor the gods they feel called to honor in the moment regardless of culture or historicity. Lots of variety, lots of room for learning and play and experimentation. Heck, technopagans are a thing. I find it weird, but it's totally a thing - Techne is certainly among the top goddesses guiding human civilization these days.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If there is a higher power, should us humans be subservient to it?

I think not.

The state of the world is poor, so any being that claims to be the creator I’ll have an issue with. Even if a creator God is real, it will never get my subservience. Not in this life or the next. I remember my Sunday school teacher would brag how after death, Christian God would make people admit that He was indeed God before sending them to Hell. But even after death, I believe my grudge will hold.

Worship is different for me. Worship is not on bended knee. Nature knows not of mercy. To pray is to accept defeat.

If you are subservient towards your gods, how and why?

The whole REASON for a higher power, whether it is God, or family, or serving mankind, or your AA group, is to have something greater than yourself to serve.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If there is a higher power, should us humans be subservient to it?

I think not.

The state of the world is poor, so any being that claims to be the creator I’ll have an issue with. Even if a creator God is real, it will never get my subservience. Not in this life or the next. I remember my Sunday school teacher would brag how after death, Christian God would make people admit that He was indeed God before sending them to Hell. But even after death, I believe my grudge will hold.

Worship is different for me. Worship is not on bended knee. Nature knows not of mercy. To pray is to accept defeat.

If you are subservient towards your gods, how and why?

For Baha’is it’s not about subservience but love. The Baha’i religion is all about love, doing things out of love not subservience. Baha’u’llah says in His Most Holy Book “ Obey My commandments for the love of My Beauty”. So Baha’is do everything out of love not fear of hell or hope for heaven or being saved. We don’t even have a concept of salvation, just to do everything out of love. We do things out of love for God and humanity. Love is our motivating reason.

Even the law of God regarding money. Payment is not accepted unless it is with joy and love to do so. God does not want to force us to do anything against our will but only out of love.

Time and again have We written and commanded that no one should solicit such payment. The offering of every person that voluntarily tendereth the Ḥuqúqu’lláh with the utmost joy and pleasure may be accepted, otherwise acceptance was not and is not permissible. (Baha’u’llah)