Succession to the Prophet Muhammad (Imama)

[Godobeyer]

And this is why i oppose the mushrikiin strongly.

They make takfir against amir al mumineen Umar(r.a) from fake religious point of view( infact they hate him because Umar destroyed the empire of fireworshipping persians), when we have clear sources both in muslim and mushrik books that Ali(r.a) gave bayyah to Umar(r.a) and worked with him closely.

So i ask Allah to curse the enemies of sahaba and ahlulbayt , and to destroy those who call upon ahlulbayt for help(which is shirk).



U can have ur false unity with naive sunnis.


Real awaken sunnis will never unite with enemies of Sahaba and ahlulbayt.

Salam brother

You are just drop in trap of this great fitnah. Every word is may count,may cause more death and victims.

I disagree with using hateful speech to show your disagreement about their beliefs.

 

[mojtaba]

I disagree with using hateful speech to show your disagreement about their beliefs.

Salamon Alaykum Godobeyer.

He says that we worship the garves, while this in not correct.

Indeed, he disagrees with lies which are in his mind, and not with our beliefs.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

Salam brother

You are just drop in trap of this great fitnah. Every word is may count,may cause more death and victims.

I disagree with using hateful speech to show your disagreement about their beliefs.

Salam brother,

May Allah help us put off this Fitnah fire which burns Islamic Ummah. Thousands of innocent Muslims are losing their lives and God's enemies are abusing the situation in the worst possible way.

I just wonder how the brains are washed with rumors and how Fitnah has been spread. Look the Islamic Ummah; Yamen, Syria, Iraq, Myanmar and.... Isn't about the time to think about unity!!!!!

By Allah we dont worship graves and we just talk to dead souls as we believe they can hear us.
We dont worship stones in our prayers we just follow the Sunnah of Nabi, pbuh, as he, pbuh, used to pray on stones or straws. If they claim that we worship those stones, with the same wrong logic, I can claim that they worship carpets and it's Bid'ah.
Do they wanna send us to Heaven by force?!!!! By hatred? By blood?!!

 

[Godobeyer]

Salamon Alaykum Godobeyer.

He says that we worship the garves, while this in not correct.

Indeed, he disagrees with lies which are in his mind, and not with our beliefs.

Salam brother,

May Allah help us put off this Fitnah fire which burns Islamic Ummah. Thousands of innocent Muslims are losing their lives and God's enemies are abusing the situation in the worst possible way.

I just wonder how the brains are washed with rumors and how Fitnah has been spread. Look the Islamic Ummah; Yamen, Syria, Iraq, Myanmar and.... Isn't about the time to think about unity!!!!!

By Allah we dont worship graves and we just talk to dead souls as we believe they can hear us.
We dont worship stones in our prayers we just follow the Sunnah of Nabi, pbuh, as he, pbuh, used to pray on stones or straws. If they claim that we worship those stones, with the same wrong logic, I can claim that they worship carpets and it's Bid'ah.
Do they wanna send us to Heaven by force?!!!! By hatred? By blood?!!

Salam brothers.

I do believe there is much rumors and generalizing about Shia beliefs, i do know there is extremists, in both sides.

I think its all blame on politics and extreme scholars in this fitnah. May the silence of rest of scholars help to burn more.

 

[mojtaba]

Salam brothers.

I do believe there is much rumors and generalizing about Shia beliefs, i do know there is extremists, in both sides.

I think its all blame on politics and extreme scholars in this fitnah. May the silence of rest of scholars help to burn more.

Salamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Thank you brother.

Most of our scholars invit Islamic Ummah to the unity. But I do not know why only some of Sunni scholars agree with Shia scholars regarding this issue. Our the most eminent political scholar, Ayatollah Khamenei( Damat Barakatoh ) is the voice of unity in Islamic Ummah. Ayatollah Sistani( Damat Barakatoh ), the most eminent Marja' and scholar of Iraq is the voice of unity. Sheykh Zaki Zaki( Zida Ezzoh ) is the voice of unity in Nigeria, and many other Shia scholars around the world.
And thanks to those Sunni scholars in Al-Azhar university who invit Sunnis to the unity.

May Allah help us to be united, as Quran, Prophet, Shia 12 Imams and many scholars want it.

 

[Godobeyer]

Salamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Thank you brother.

Most of our scholars invit Islamic Ummah to the unity. But I do not know why only some of Sunni scholars are agree with Shia scholars regarding this issue. Our the most eminent political scholar, Ayatollah Khamenei( Damat Barakatoh ) is the voice of unity in Islamic Ummah. Ayatollah Sistani( Damat Barakatoh ), the most eminent Marja' and scholar of Iraq is the voice of unity. Sheykh Zaki Zaki( Zida Ezzoh ) is the voice of unity in Nigeria, and many other Shia scholars around the world.
And thanks to those Sunni scholars in Al-Azhar university who invit Sunnis to the unity.

May Allah help us to be united, as Quran, Prophet, Shia 12 Imams and many scholars want it.

Wa alykom alsalam.

All are blames.
EDITED to correct typo error:
Even some Shia scholars had dirty voices on this fitnah, when they insulted some Sahaba and our mother Aisha(pbuh).which provoke the Sunnis.

I see it's not neccessary at all to insult the beliefs of both sides,which turned to fitnah and takfirism.

I hope this fitnah will stop soon and not expansion

May Allah accept our Dua. Ameen.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

Wa alykom alsalam.

All are blames.
EDITED to correct typo error:
Even some Shia scholars had dirty voices on this fitnah, when they insulted some Sahaba and our mother Aisha(pbuh).which provoke the Sunnis.

I see it's not neccessary at all to insult the beliefs of both sides,which turned to fitnah and takfirism.

I hope this fitnah will stop soon and not expansion

May Allah accept our Dua. Ameen.

Brother,
The fact that radical scholars exist on both sides is undenible. There are some Shia scholars, or at least nominally called Shia scholars, who reject any unity with Sunnis and insult their belifes in any chance they get. And I should tell you that they have got strong supports, politically, economically and populationally. However, the main stream of Shia muslims are Not following them.we follow scholars like Khamenei, Sistani and... who call for unity. NOT just with Sunnis but with all the beliveea including Christians. Iranian Christians have never betrayed us and have always been us with hard days. Why shouldnt we unite them as beliver Ummah. Ayat ollah Khameni some times vists even Christian families and has meal with them and invites them to unity as Ummah of belivers. Sunnis are closer to us in belifes rather than Christians, why shouldnt we shake hands and support eachother.
May Allah help us fight with this dengrous Fitnah, caused by some vicit people and supported by some ignorant people.
Check out Yaser al habib, Allah yari Channels, Fadak Channel which are claiming they are Shia. They are supported by U.S. and British government. How come!!!! American politicians support Shia?!!!! Those channels insult Aisha badly and condemns Sunni belifes in the worst possible ways. On the other hand, thete are some Sunni channels supported by some dark kingdoms which record those instuls and spread them to Sunni society and....

 

[Godobeyer]

Brother,
The fact that radical scholars exist on both sides is undenible. There are some Shia scholars, or at least nominally called Shia scholars, who reject any unity with Sunnis and insult their belifes in any chance they get. And I should tell you that they have got strong supports, politically, economically and populationally. However, the main stream of Shia muslims are Not following them.we follow scholars like Khamenei, Sistani and... who call for unity. NOT just with Sunnis but with all the beliveea including Christians. Iranian Christians have never betrayed us and have always been us with hard days. Why shouldnt we unite them as beliver Ummah. Ayat ollah Khameni some times vists even Christian families and has meal with them and invites them to unity as Ummah of belivers. Sunnis are closer to us in belifes rather than Christians, why shouldnt we shake hands and support eachother.
May Allah help us fight with this dengrous Fitnah, caused by some vicit people and supported by some ignorant people.
Check out Yaser al habib, Allah yari Channels, Fadak Channel which are claiming they are Shia. They are supported by U.S. and British government. How come!!!! American politicians support Shia?!!!! Those channels insult Aisha badly and condemns Sunni belifes in the worst possible ways. On the other hand, thete are some Sunni channels supported by some dark kingdoms which record those instuls and spread them to Sunni society and....

I know that .

I like to listen to Dr Adnan Ibrahim, I think he will made a revolution against extemism and make Ummah more unity.

No one had keys of Paradise or Hell, except Allah. claiming knowing what Allah will do in Judgement Day , that Shirk (partner of Allah)

God was clear enough who will enter to hell.

29:15
None will [enter to] burn therein except the most wretched one.
29:16
Who had denied and turned away.


Allhamdo lilaalah all of us are not deniers.

 

[Smart_Guy]

If I may ask a question in this forum. The twelfth Imam Al Mahdi. If I am understanding correctly. He did not die and lives still on the earth but not in plain sight. Is he ever seen by people? If so, does he identify himself? Is he a messiah type figure to Muslims? I am very curious about this. Thank you. Respectfully.

Main stream Islam and the vast majority of Muslims believe that he's a just and righteous man related to the Prophet Muhammad who's going to rule and spread peace and justice in the world for sometime. They believe he's either not born yet or born normally like any other human being and not recognized yet, even by himself. No miracles are involved in it.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Post this in shia section outside Islam section, because i believe shias are not muslims.

Thanks

Easy there bro, I don't disagree that this thread belongs to the Shiaa DIR because it is Shiaa belief specific, but we can't call those who believe they are Muslim not Muslims. Only God knows what's in the heart.

 

[zahra67]

Post this in shia section outside Islam section, because i believe shias are not muslims.

Thanks

shia muslims resort to ahlulbayt, according the the holy quran.
they are means of proximity to God.

see:
sura 4 verse 64

And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's
permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and
asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had [also] asked forgiveness for
them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning [to mercy], Merciful.

and also sura 5 verse 35
. O you who believe! be careful of [your duty to] Allah and seek means of
nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.

and also the verses about prophet joseph that his clothes was healing for eyes of father that became blind for crying for him.
is it shirk?
is it possible to one of the divine prophet commit shirk?
surely not and our resorting to ahlulbayt is not shirk and its according to the holy Quran and the ahadith of prophet like hadith thaqalayn which is authentic between all muslim people.

The Messenger of Allah, (peace be upon him and his immaculate ahlulbayt,) said:
“I am leaving behind over you that which if you adhere to it you will never go astray after me. One of them is greater than the other: the Book of Allah - a rope stretching from the heaven to the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount. Therefore, watch carefully how you treat them after me.”
and verse 23 of sura 42 which mentioned the reward for prophethood is only love, affection and mavaddat for his ahlulbayt.
also insult against sahabah and takfir for any muslim group has no any place in shia beliefs and actions.

Allah bless you all.

 

[mojtaba]

Wa alykom alsalam.

All are blames.
EDITED to correct typo error:
Even some Shia scholars had dirty voices on this fitnah, when they insulted some Sahaba and our mother Aisha(pbuh).which provoke the Sunnis.

I see it's not neccessary at all to insult the beliefs of both sides,which turned to fitnah and takfirism.

I hope this fitnah will stop soon and not expansion

May Allah accept our Dua. Ameen.

Ameen!

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

shia muslims resort to ahlulbayt, according the the holy quran.
they are means of proximity to God.

see:
sura 4 verse 64

And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's
permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and
asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had [also] asked forgiveness for
them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning [to mercy], Merciful.

and also sura 5 verse 35
. O you who believe! be careful of [your duty to] Allah and seek means of
nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.

and also the verses about prophet joseph that his clothes was healing for eyes of father that became blind for crying for him.
is it shirk?
is it possible to one of the divine prophet commit shirk?
surely not and our resorting to ahlulbayt is not shirk and its according to the holy Quran and the ahadith of prophet like hadith thaqalayn which is authentic between all muslim people.

The Messenger of Allah, (peace be upon him and his immaculate ahlulbayt,) said:
“I am leaving behind over you that which if you adhere to it you will never go astray after me. One of them is greater than the other: the Book of Allah - a rope stretching from the heaven to the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount. Therefore, watch carefully how you treat them after me.”
and verse 23 of sura 42 which mentioned the reward for prophethood is only love, affection and mavaddat for his ahlulbayt.
also insult against sahabah and takfir for any muslim group has no any place in shia beliefs and actions.

Allah bless you all.

ya hussain and ya ali madad(help me) are slogans of graveworshipping mushrikiin
iam innocent of what polytheists say

 

[mojtaba]

ya hussain and ya ali madad(help me) are slogans of graveworshipping mushrikiin
iam innocent of what polytheists say

O Prophet! Sufficient for you is Allah and those of the faithful who follow you.[8:64]

Is this verse polytheism?!

Or, when Prophet Solomon asked help from his companions was polytheist?

He[ Solomon ] said, ‘Ya Ayyohal( i.e., O ) [members of the] elite! Which of you will bring me her throne before they come to me in submission?’[27:38]

-------------------------------------------------------
When we say Ya( O ) Husain(a.s.) help us, we indeed mean, O Husain(a.s.) help us by pleading with Allah(wat), so that He(swt) may help us.

Brother, try to get the point.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

ya hussain and ya ali madad(help me) are slogans of graveworshipping mushrikiin
iam innocent of what polytheists say

La hawla wa la quwwata 'illa billahil 'aliyyul 'azeem.
There is no power except His power.
There is no help except His help.
All helps are by His permission.

When we say ya Ali, in fact we ask Ali,a.s. to join us to Allah.
We ask him to ask God as he,a.s. is Wajeeh 'indallah. I say Ya Allah much more than Ya Ali, however, Ya Ali also works.

 

[Smart_Guy]

La hawla wa la quwwata 'illa billahil 'aliyyul 'azeem.
There is no power except His power.
There is no help except His help.
All helps are by His permission.

When we say ya Ali, in fact we ask Ali,a.s. to join us to Allah.
We ask him to ask God as he,a.s. is Wajeeh 'indallah. I say Ya Allah much more than Ya Ali, however, Ya Ali also works.

Brother, I have some questions, if you don't mind:

Why is asking Ali and Husain (pbut) directly so excessive with heavy emotions (like crying) and done in a manner that gives the impression that they are the ones with the power, not God?

Also, why not ask Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instead, as he's the closest to God? So far I never seen this happen.

Why not ask God instead? Not asking Him directly instead or asking dead people, kinda gives the impression that He's being belittled and that He does not really have the power (God forbid). The Quraan mentions that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is only a human being who gets inspired that your God is only one God, at the end of The Cave Chapter. If that's Muhammad (pbuh), then wouldn't Ali and Husain (pbut) be of less power since Muhammad (pbuh) is higher than them and closer to God? God also tells us directly to ask Him directly so He answers to us, in The Cow Chapter.

One last thing; aren't they dead (they are not immortal to be living now like God to hear us)? How can they make a difference knowing they can't hear us? The way I see it is done, gives the impression Ali and Husain (pbut) are the ones asked to give what's asked for, not asking them to ask God. I could be wrong tho. It just feels like this practice is copying Christians in asking priests for forgiveness instead of God.

I'm only asking questions. No intention to debate. I'm only interested to know why.

Please advise.

Note:
Non Shiaa, please do not answer these questions or quote me in this post, thank you.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

Brother, I have some questions, if you don't mind:

Why is asking Ali and Husain (pbut) directly so excessive with heavy emotions (like crying) and done in a manner that gives the impression that they are the ones with the power, not God?

Also, why not ask Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instead, as he's the closest to God? So far I never seen this happen.

Why not ask God instead? Not asking Him directly instead or asking dead people, kinda gives the impression that He's being belittled and that He does not really have the power (God forbid). The Quraan mentions that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is only a human being who gets inspired that your God is only one God, at the end of The Cave Chapter. If that's Muhammad (pbuh), then wouldn't Ali and Husain (pbut) be of less power since Muhammad (pbuh) is higher than them and closer to God? God also tells us directly to ask Him directly so He answers to us, in The Cow Chapter.

One last thing; aren't they dead (they are not immortal to be living now like God to hear us)? How can they make a difference knowing they can't hear us? The way I see it is done, gives the impression Ali and Husain (pbut) are the ones asked to give what's asked for, not asking them to ask God. I could be wrong tho. It just feels like this practice is copying Christians in asking priests for forgiveness instead of God.

I'm only asking questions. No intention to debate. I'm only interested to know why.

Please advise.

Note:
Non Shiaa, please do not answer these questions or quote me in this post, thank you.

Brother, thanks for your questions, listen carefully,....
first of all I ask you to read Dua of Tawassul in Arabic , in your own language. Your questions are about Tawwasul(Asking prophets and Imams to ask God), why dont you find your answers from our books? If you had studied that Dua, you would have never asked many of those questions.
That's a famous peace of writing which we read basically once a weak. In that Dua we first ask God, then ask Muhammad, pbuh, to ask God then we ask Fatimah,s.a and the successors of Muhammad,pbuh to ask God.
You ask me why dont we ask Muhammad,pbuh first?!?!?!?
I also apply Tawassul by asking from Jesus,pbuh and Noah,pbuh.
It was just a couple of months ago, that the husband of my sister said 'I saw Jesus,pbuh in my dream, he,pbuh, opened a locked door'. My sister said while she was surprised 'Yedterday I took Tawassul by Jesus,pbuh'.
I dont wanna say that dream was true or not, or Jesus,pbuh, really helped or... I just wanna let you know that it's not just Ali,a.s. and Husain,a.s., from whom we ask.

Second of all, the crying is out of Love. When I cry on their graves it's because I like them. I wanna be with them. Dont you sigh that you cant see or watch them?!
Dont you wanna spend some time talking to Muhammad,Jesus, Ali, Mahdi,....,peace be upon them all?

Third of all, I just wonder how you say that they are dead and they dont hear us!!!!!
There are many authentic Hadiths about it!!!
Dont you say 'Assalumu alayka ayyuhan Nabiyyu wa rahmatullah....'?
If no, then you have missed his,pbuh sweat answer.
In fact we are the dead, they are alive.
Infact we are slep, they are awake....

Forth of all, we also ask God directly. Dont we?!
We have many peaces of writings, Dua and prayers which help us directly ask from God and only a couple of Duas to ask inderectly. Check out Dua of Komeil by Ali,a.s. the first successor of Muhammad,pbuh, Duas of Sahifa Al-Sajjadiya, by Sajjad,a.s. the forth successor of Muhammad,pbuh, Joshan Al-Kabir and hundereds of Duas in which we ask God directly.
I suggest you to study Dua of Komeil, in which Ali,a.s. teaches Komeil to say these sentences
'O God, forgive me the sins which doesnt let my prayers be accepted'
Which means there are some sins which will block our prayers snd requests for a certain period of time, in that case, we can use Tawassul.
'O Muhammad, my sins might have blocked my prayers and suolications, you ask God to forgive me, as you are Wajeeh'

Dua of Tawassul

http://www.duas.org/tawassul.htm

Dua of Kumail

http://www.duas.org/kumayl.htm

 

[Smart_Guy]

Brother, thanks for your questions, listen carefully,....
first of all I ask you to read Dua of Tawassul in Arabic , in your own language. Your questions are about Tawwasul(Asking prophets and Imams to ask God), why dont you find your answers from our books? If you had studied that Dua, you would have never asked many of those questions.
That's a famous peace of writing which we read basically once a weak. In that Dua we first ask God, then ask Muhammad, pbuh, to ask God then we ask Fatimah,s.a and the successors of Muhammad,pbuh to ask God.
You ask me why dont we ask Muhammad,pbuh first?!?!?!?
I also apply Tawassul by asking from Jesus,pbuh and Noah,pbuh.
It was just a couple of months ago, that the husband of my sister said 'I saw Jesus,pbuh in my dream, he,pbuh, opened a locked door'. My sister said while she was surprised 'Yedterday I took Tawassul by Jesus,pbuh'.
I dont wanna say that dream was true or not, or Jesus,pbuh, really helped or... I just wanna let you know that it's not just Ali,a.s. and Husain,a.s., from whom we ask.

Second of all, the crying is out of Love. When I cry on their graves it's because I like them. I wanna be with them. Dont you sigh that you cant see or watch them?!
Dont you wanna spend some time talking to Muhammad,Jesus, Ali, Mahdi,....,peace be upon them all?

Third of all, I just wonder how you say that they are dead and they dont hear us!!!!!
There are many authentic Hadiths about it!!!
Dont you say 'Assalumu alayka ayyuhan Nabiyyu wa rahmatullah....'?
If no, then you have missed his,pbuh sweat answer.
In fact we are the dead, they are alive.
Infact we are slep, they are awake....

Forth of all, we also ask God directly. Dont we?!
We have many peaces of writings, Dua and prayers which help us directly ask from God and only a couple of Duas to ask inderectly. Check out Dua of Komeil by Ali,a.s. the first successor of Muhammad,pbuh, Duas of Sahifa Al-Sajjadiya, by Sajjad,a.s. the forth successor of Muhammad,pbuh, Joshan Al-Kabir and hundereds of Duas in which we ask God directly.
I suggest you to study Dua of Komeil, in which Ali,a.s. teaches Komeil to say these sentences
'O God, forgive me the sins which doesnt let my prayers be accepted'
Which means there are some sins which will block our prayers snd requests for a certain period of time, in that case, we can use Tawassul.
'O Muhammad, my sins might have blocked my prayers and suolications, you ask God to forgive me, as you are Wajeeh'

Dua of Tawassul

http://www.duas.org/tawassul.htm

Dua of Kumail

http://www.duas.org/kumayl.htm

Thank you for the reply. Please keep in mind that I respect your believing what you want, I just wanted to know how you see it.

Peace and mercy be upon you.

 

[Yasin-shalal]

Thank you for the reply. Please keep in mind that I respect your believing what you want, I just wanted to know how you see it.

Peace and mercy be upon you.

That's wise of you. I also rspect your beliefs, we are all Muslims and from one Ummah, the nation of belivers. We have the same God, prophets, book and....We are in fact brothers.

 

[Smart_Guy]

That's wise of you. I also rspect your beliefs, we are all Muslims and from one Ummah, the nation of belivers. We have the same God, prophets, book and....We are in fact brothers.

That's what matters the most