Suffering and evil

[nPeace]

I don't believe that literally, the punishment of "eating the forbidden fruit" is death.
Mankind was never meant to live forever on this earth. This physical existence
does not support that.

I'm not sure if you believe the scriptures.
From scripture, we see that is not actually true.
Adam was told he would die, only if he ate from that one tree.
So obviously, he would not have died, if he did not eat the fruit.

Furthermore, he would have lived forever, if he ate from the other tree - the tree of life.
God confirmed that.
(Genesis 3:22) . . .Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever. . .

The prophets agree.
(Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

(Matthew 25:46) These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

(Ephesians 1:10) . . .to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him

There is not a lot we can do about it .. we must all die.
What we can do something about, is what we do while we are here.

Not according to scripture.
(John 11:26) . . .and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?

 

[nPeace]

Not according to Deuteronomy 32:5.

Just as you can’t blame a parent whose child chose to steal, or murder, or whatever.

I'm glad you used the Tanakh here.
I often wonder how Jews respond to their own text refuting their claims.

 

[nPeace]

Then god isn't God, not a parent, not the creator.

I don't get that "logic".

 

[muhammad_isa]

We can study biomedical fields, we already have done something, humans live longer now, and I hope through research and study we will continue to improve the quality and length of life.

I would be happy if I die tonight..
What is the point of living longer?

You complain about suffering and evil .. and you want more of it???

 

[muhammad_isa]

Adam was told he would die, only if he ate from that one tree.
So obviously, he would not have died, if he did not eat the fruit.

Furthermore, he would have lived forever, if he ate from the other tree - the tree of life..

Pointless conjecture..
Almighty God is omniscient, and He knew that Adam and Eve would sin .. He is aware of what He created.

The prophets agree.
(Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

I'm not a literalist..
I interpret that as the righteous and their offspring..
This world is finite .. it cannot support an ever growing population.

(Matthew 25:46) These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

Funny that, my translation states..
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

which agrees with the Qur'an.

 

[nPeace]

Pointless conjecture..
Almighty God is omniscient, and He knew that Adam and Eve would sin .. He is aware of what He created.

You have scripture for that? Then it's your idea - your belief.
Isn't it?

I'm not a literalist..
I interpret that as the righteous and their offspring..
This world is finite .. it cannot support an ever growing population.

This is not about you, and what you think. Is it?

Funny that, my translation states..
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

which agrees with the Qur'an.

Ah good. Life eternal. How is that funny?
Your Bible says life eternal on earth. Read psalms 37 for everyone to hear.
Let's all laugh together about it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You have scripture for that? Then it's your idea - your belief.
Isn't it?

I'm just using the intelligence that God gave me..
Is Almighty God omniscient .. or not?

Let's all laugh together about it.

I'm not laughing.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'm glad you used the Tanakh here.
I often wonder how Jews respond to their own text refuting their claims.

Thanks. I knew the poster is Jewish, that’s why I did it. Verse 4 is great, too.

Sometimes, though, we need the Greek Scriptures to help us understand the Hebrew Scriptures.

Take care, my brother

 

[idea]

I don't get that "logic".

How do you define God? I though god was supposed to be a creator, supposed to be just, etc. Not just? Not the creator? That's not a god.

 

[idea]

I would be happy if I die tonight..
What is the point of living longer?

You complain about suffering and evil .. and you want more of it???

Happy to die? No one depends on you? No one would morn for you? You are not currently engaged in meaningful work?

I value the wellbeing of those who depend on me, so value staying alive for their sake. I have quite a few people depending on me, family and work.

I work to decrease suffering and evil as I know there is no God who magically takes care of anyone.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I value the wellbeing of those who depend on me, so value staying alive for their sake..

I can appreciate that..

..but we all have to die one day.
Is it necessarily better that we die at 105 rather than 70?
I do not see that it is.
Old people tend to be dependent on others, and have a poor quality of life.

I work to decrease suffering and evil as I know there is no God who magically takes care of anyone.

You might feel that you are doing that, but it might not be so.
We have to think of the whole, as well as our family and friends.

 

[idea]

I can appreciate that..

..but we all have to die one day.
Is it necessarily better that we die at 105 rather than 70?
I do not see that it is.
Old people tend to be dependent on others, and have a poor quality of life.


You might feel that you are doing that, but it might not be so.
We have to think of the whole, as well as our family and friends.

I'm not that old yet, but do have a good savings account so I will not be a burden when that time comes.
I'm in education, have seen poverty cycles ended through the work our school does. My students are appreciative, and I'm appreciative to be in a meaningful line of work.

All paid work- and some unpaid work - is needed. Humanity has reached 8 billion because we all support one another.

God supports no one. God doesn't exist.
Humans support one another. Humans are responsible for all the good, for all the advances on this planet.

 

[idea]

It is understood that Adam's life depended on remaining obedient to God - the source of life.

I brought my children into this world, and they have not always been perfectly obedient.

I would never kill a child over eating an apple. That is unjust, and unloving.

I recognize it is my own fault in not teaching correctly - not the fault of kids - the fault of parents not providing the correct guidance, and see mistakes as the result of confusion and misunderstanding.

It is evident the Bible writers understood this too.

The Bible was written/maintained by power-hungry politicians. It encourages people to be submissive slaves - to submit to things like their ruler killing them over food, over an apple.

The Bible was written by men, for men.
There is no God, only men who write books and manipulate others for power.

(Deuteronomy 30:20) . . .by loving *pope/prophet/bishop/men* by listening to men's voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land. . .??

Haha, the pope would like you to think that. These men pray on the weak, collect $billions from the poor, feed on maintaining this belief that *they* are messengers of God and and can therefore kill you over an apple.

Sadly, many don't appreciate it, and they won't. ...and cannot benefit from that gift.

Thankfully many don't subject themselves to the lies of religion.

There is no *gift*. There is abuse, theft, manipulation by men.

 

[muhammad_isa]

God supports no one. God doesn't exist.
Humans support one another. Humans are responsible for all the good, for all the advances on this planet.

..so who is responsible for all the bad?
Climate-change, pandemics and wars?

You can't say "God", because you just claimed that He doesn't exist.

 

[nPeace]

I'm just using the intelligence that God gave me..

To do what?

Is Almighty God omniscient .. or not?

You can easily answer that... based on scripture. Not human ideas.

Is omniscient involuntarily knowing everything, or having the ability to know everything?

If God knows everything, why does he need to test persons out (their motives and intentions)... in order to get to know?
(Genesis 18:20-21) 20 Then Jehovah said: “The outcry against Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah is indeed great, and their sin is very heavy. 21 I will go down to see whether they are acting according to the outcry that has reached me. And if not, I can get to know it.”

(Genesis 22:1-12) 1 Now after this the true God put Abraham to the test, and he said to him: “Abraham!” to which he replied: “Here I am!” 2 Then he said: “Take, please, your son, your only son whom you so love, Isaac, and travel to the land of Mo·riʹah and offer him up there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains that I will designate to you.” ... 12 Then he said: “Do not harm the boy, and do not do anything at all to him, for now I do know that you are God-fearing because you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.”

(Deuteronomy 8:2) Remember the long road that Jehovah your God made you walk these 40 years in the wilderness, to humble you and to put you to the test so as to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep his commandments or not.

(2 Chronicles 32:31) 31 However, when the spokesmen of the princes of Babylon were sent to ask him about the sign that had occurred in the land, the true God left him alone to put him to the test, to get to know all that was in his heart.

If God knows everything, why does he need to search hearts... in order to get to know?
(Psalms 7:9) Please put an end to the evil deeds of the wicked. But establish the righteous, Since you are the righteous God who examines the hearts and the deepest emotions.

(Psalms 139:23) Search through me, O God, and know my heart. Examine me, and know my anxious thoughts.

Can God exercise his ability to know anything he wants to? Yes - Isaiah 46:9-11
Is there a need for God to know everything? No - Deuteronomy 30:19-20

I'm not laughing.

I hope not.

 

[nPeace]

How do you define God? I though god was supposed to be a creator, supposed to be just, etc. Not just? Not the creator? That's not a god.

God simply means mighty one.
A god does not need to be creator, or just. Why?

There are many mighty ones - gods. There is only one true God who is creator of all.
The Bible describes him as a God of justice, love, wisdom, and absolute power.

 

[nPeace]

I brought my children into this world, and they have not always been perfectly obedient.

I would never kill a child over eating an apple. That is unjust, and unloving.

I recognize it is my own fault in not teaching correctly - not the fault of kids - the fault of parents not providing the correct guidance, and see mistakes as the result of confusion and misunderstanding.



The Bible was written/maintained by power-hungry politicians. It encourages people to be submissive slaves - to submit to things like their ruler killing them over food, over an apple.

The Bible was written by men, for men.
There is no God, only men who write books and manipulate others for power.

(Deuteronomy 30:20) . . .by loving *pope/prophet/bishop/men* by listening to men's voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land. . .??

Haha, the pope would like you to think that. These men pray on the weak, collect $billions from the poor, feed on maintaining this belief that *they* are messengers of God and and can therefore kill you over an apple.



Thankfully many don't subject themselves to the lies of religion.

There is no *gift*. There is abuse, theft, manipulation by men.

I don't think you heard a word I said.
Seems your mind is already made up.

Nevertheless, I'll repeat. God did not kill anyone for eating a fruit.
As a just judge, God does execute disobedient ones, though.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If God knows everything, why does he need to test persons out (their motives and intentions)... in order to get to know?

The fact that God is omniscient, does not mean that we have no free-will .. it simply means that God knows what we will choose, through some mechanism we are not fully aware of.
If that was not the case, then God could not inform prophets of the future or end-times.

If God knows everything, why does he need to search hearts... in order to get to know?

(Psalms 7:9) Please put an end to the evil deeds of the wicked. But establish the righteous, Since you are the righteous God who examines the hearts and the deepest emotions..

Yes, omniscience throws up all sorts of issues and paradoxes.
Almighty God is truly all-Powerful and all-Knowing.
From our perspective in this universe, tomorrow "hasn't happened yet" .. and it is this that confuses us.

 

[idea]

... There is only one true God who is creator of all.

Creator of all = created evil = evil.

Good thing he's imaginary.

 

[idea]

I don't think you heard a word I said.
Seems your mind is already made up.

Nevertheless, I'll repeat. God did not kill anyone for eating a fruit.
As a just judge, God does execute disobedient ones, though.

I've read the Bible.

God created a poisonous tree, created laws that everyone would die because- as in Adam all die - God abandoned Adam and eve, did not protect them from the snake or the tree that God himself made.

Christianity is a nonsensical unjust craziness where all humanity gets killed for eating an apple. Then God kills Jesus - life for a life- because Adam ate an apple. (Actually Eve, but but it is a male church, so who cares about Eve)

Thou shalt die for eating an apple. Doesn't hold up in any court. Would you condemn anyone to death for eating an apple? Would you think it just to kill someone for eating a piece of fruit? Unjust, unloving, pure craziness! This story doesn't teach good morals, it is a nightmare.