• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Suffering

Antiochian

Rationalist
Would love to know why other Pagans think there is suffering in the world. I don't know that I've heard a straightforward answer to this question from the Craft, Druidry, or any other Pagan religion I've studied. One psychic medium stated in her book that we go through the bad stuff for karmic reasons--some people die young, experience misfortune, and other things for karmic reasons.

Christians say it's sin and the devil, Buddhism says it's attachments, others say this and that. Any Pagans want to address this?

Why do children and young people die? Why do some people seem to experience such great misfortune, especially good people? Why do some people never find happiness or love? I just can't help but wonder. I don't expect that anyone will have THE ANSWER. Would just love some insight.
 

sol_mas

Spiritual Investigator
Why do children and young people die? Why do some people seem to experience such great misfortune, especially good people? Why do some people never find happiness or love? I just can't help but wonder. I don't expect that anyone will have THE ANSWER. Would just love some insight.

From my perspective, like you've mentioned, I don't think you'll find a satisfactory answer, at least the way you've asked the question.

I will say I don't believe there are divine reasons for the suffering you describe, even if someone 'deserves' it. Those that do deserve it usually create their own problems here in the real world.

People young and old get sick because we're organic beings.

People can find happiness; sometimes it just takes work to let go of the things keeping them from it.

IMHO, the Divine's role is to help us along this life, not to create suffering in a reward/punishment scenario.

-sm
 

Antibush5

Active Member
For me, unhappiness is the way of the world, the best way you can get rid of it is to work against it, but thats basically what the guy above me said.
 

thalassa

New Member
Suffering exists because survival is not certain and does not come without a cost. You have to eat to live (both physically/literally and spiritually/metaphorically), and everyone can't be a fruitatarian at the table of the world. Nature is red in tooth and claw, and (like it or not) humanity is part of nature.
 
Would love to know why other Pagans think there is suffering in the world.

Christians say it's sin and the devil, Buddhism says it's attachments, others say this and that. Any Pagans want to address this?

I am a Pagan. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but my belief is that this world is like a school or training ground. By meeting challenges and difficulties successfully we are transformed. We choose the conditions of our incarnation that will help us in that cause.

The problem of suffering is only a problem when you look at it from a perspective that looks at this life as focal rather than incidental. That doesn't mean suffering isn't real or important; I think compassion is the spiritual response to suffering and indifference is not. Even though individuals may choose to endure a life of suffering, their suffering is still real. It still hurts; and it is the spiritual, compassionate thing to do what one can to alleviate it.

This is my view. Hope it helps. :)
 

WhiskeyJack

Member
Is discordian considered pagan? hahaha i'm gonna answer anyway.

there is suffering because the world is chaos.
children die young because: malnutrition, murder, disease, other unhappy accidents etc.
good people suffer misfortune because: there is misfortune in the world, and it is not picky.
Some people never find happiness or love because: just living is not enough for them.

HoPe ThIs HeLps!
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'd like to distinguish between two classes of suffering.

The first sort is geared towards simple survival of our biological organism and is rooted in the physical reality of our existence. Our bodies feel pain to tell us to get away from danger; our stomachs crave food to tell us we need to be fed. This sort of suffering is an inevitability; it's part of how the universe works.

The second sort is the product of mental constructs. This type of suffering exists because many humans have the mistaken opinion that we live in a just, righteous, or kindly universe. We project onto the universe the expectation that it should be fair or that we're entitled to some privilege. Then, when the universe continues to not give a damn and we don't get what we want, we experience suffering. It's quite amusing, given this suffering is self-inflicted and not at all necessary.

Asking questions like "why do babies die before they get the chance to live their life" becomes somewhat frivolous after considering these two classes of suffering. Stuff happens. The end. It holds no greater meaning unless you as a human decide it does. Assign meaning with caution.
 

BadBeast

Active Member
People suffer because that's what we do. You'll never get a definitive answer to this question. There isn't always an answer to every question. Why do people insist that there must be? Can we not accept that some things will never be satisfactorily answered?

And if you do stumble across an answer that seems to work, as soon as you tell someone, they will almost certainly dispute it, because they have also been muddling along with their own answers, and I'll bet a bollock to a bottle of beer, none of them are the same as yours.
So in fact, asking this question, with the expectation of cracking it, will only result in lots of people disagreeing over each other's 'work in progress' models and paradigms, creating more suffering and misunderstanding in the World.

Often people need to be trained out of pointlessly inflicting suffering on themselves. All those little obstacles and behaviour patterns that aren't major enough to be classed as aberrant, but still cause us grief nonetheless. The self conditioned, ingrained negative responses that we all have, to certain outside stimuli.

Instead of changing the pattern of "React, think, suffer" into
"Think, react, minimise negative consequences", we somehow train ourselves into deciding the drawbacks of the original pattern are worth suffering, because we are comfortable with the familiarity. The predictability. There's one example of "Intentional suffering for a predictable life"

It's lazy, it's constrictive, and it's unhealthy. How many times do you hear people say stuff like "I can't help reacting like that, it's how I was brought up"?
When what they really mean is

"This is the response I learned first, when I was a child, and I can't be arsed to learn a more appropriate way to react".

If it's that effortless to replay a "suffering" pattern, then it's equally easy to create a "Stop suffering" pattern, and play that instead.

We will never know why suffering is such a huge dynamic in our cognitive processes, but we can learn to recognise the patterns we use to inflict it upon ourselves, and each other. And. . . . . I don't know, perhaps adjust our own behaviour patterns in order to minimise the damage we do?

"We will destroy those Enemies, but we must first know the Enemy. And the Enemies are the Devils, that hide in our minds, and make us less than happy"

Or we could just sit around and whine about how crap our lives are, whilst blaming every other single factor we can for our woes. Then we can continue to avoid addressing the root cause of most of them. Our own stupidity and reluctance to shoulder the least bit of responsibility for anything we do.

We project our faults onto the nearest unsuspecting scapegoat, and thereby avoid having to actually accept the consequences of our behaviour.

"Well, if I'm too apathetic to stop suffering, I'm going to make sure I'm not alone".

So instead of asking an irrelevant question like "Why is there suffering in the World"? We should be asking "How can I learn to adjust my behaviour, so that it's consequences have positive results instead of negative ones"?

That's a question with many workable and effective answers. Ones that you can implement and see quick results with. This starts new positive cycles or patterns that replace the negative ones.

The cessation of suffering will positively reinforce the new patterns. And patterns are nothing if not viral in nature. They infect the patterns of others around us.

It's like upgrading your AV Software. Introduce a piece of corrective code, instead of the malware that we keep around in our personal runtime environments. Corrective code that replaces and neutralises the malware.

Anything else makes as much sense as having your new Windows 7 Laptop downgrading itself with automatic updates, so you end up with good old XP, or even worse, Vista!
 
Top