Supreme Court ruling on prayer case

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The question is, did what this coach do rise to the level of leading school prayer, if the students are free to walk away without repercussion? I don't believe so.

You are not paying attention -- this coach is an evangelical Christian: he believes that he is called to spread the faith, and that is what he is doing. If he merely wished to pray, and nothing else, nothing is simpler for the Christian, as @Subduction Zone pointed out. His insistance and loudly, surrounded by students, at center field immediately after the whistle tell you what you need to know.

And "free to walk away without repercussion?" How would you know about that? This is the man that makes important decisions about these schoolboys -- like who gets the most play time, and who sits on the bench, and he is not required to explain to anybody his reasons for doing so. In fact, one of his players actually told his father that he was afraid he'd get less play time if he didn't stay and participate.

The US supreme court is letting prayer back in public schools. This is unsettling | Moira Donegan

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Democracy is about letting local governments determine their own social, cultural and political life and decide about their own future. A distant federal government deciding instead is the death of democracy.
In my humble opinion.

And constitutions are partly about ensuring that local governments do not oppress minorities unjustly, like just because they don't like them very much.

 

[Revoltingest]

And constitutions are partly about ensuring that local governments do not oppress minorities unjustly, like just because they don't like them very much.

Many are in favor of "democracy" supplanting the Bill Of
Rights when it suits their goals. In this case, it's the right
of Christians to use government venues to pray & proselytize.

A common view...
Here Are Some Arguments Used to Support Prayer In Public Schools
Excerpted...
"When We Do Allow School Prayer, God Rewards Us."
"When We Do Not Allow Faculty-Led School Prayer, God Punishes Us Harshly."
"School Prayer Is a Public, Symbolic Act, Not a Religious One."

 

[Estro Felino]

Many are in favor of "democracy" supplanting the Bill Of
Rights when it suits their goals. In this case, it's the right
of Christians to use government venues to pray & proselytize.

Tenth Amendment.

 

[Revoltingest]

Tenth Amendment.

Are you aware that this doesn't mean the
states can violate the federal Constitution?

Otherwise, you could justify states prohibiting
separate education for blacks & whites. This
is just the tip of that iceberg.

 

[Estro Felino]

Are you aware that this doesn't mean the
states can violate the federal Constitution?
.

They cannot, of course.
Does the abortion ban violate the federal Constitution?

 

[Revoltingest]

They cannot, of course.
Does the abortion ban violate the federal Constitution?

There is no singular abortion ban.
Each state has / will have different laws.
They could very well violate the Constitution,
yet survive court challenge, but that's a
complex issue

 

[Estro Felino]

There is no singular abortion ban.
Each state has / will have different laws.
They could very well violate the Constitution,
yet survive court challenge, but that's a
complex issue

It is all subject to interpretation.
Even I could affirm that health insurances are uncostitutional because health is not business.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is all subject to interpretation.
Even I could affirm that health insurances are uncostitutional because health is not business.

The problem of everything being subject to interpretation,
no matter how specious the rationale, is that judges may
rule however they please. We should employ cogent
reasoning using evidence. This leads to better results.

 

[Estro Felino]

The problem of everything being subject to interpretation,
no matter how specious the rationale, is that judges may
rule however they please. We should employ cogent
reasoning using evidence. This leads to better results.

Common Law systems work like that.
The judge is free to interpret the law.

 

[Revoltingest]

Common Law systems work like that.
The judge is free to interpret the law.

Freedom, while often abused by judges, is not
total in common law. Here, they sometimes
receive scrutiny & sanction for egregious behavior.

I suppose that some judges here might embrace
your philosophy, & refuse to convict people who violate
anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-contraception,
anti-miscegenation, & other anti-liberty laws. While
others might convict & imprison women for having
miscarried.
The law & justice would become a kind of lottery,
wherein de juro & de facto laws are unknown until
one rolls the dice by encountering this or that
prosecutor or judge.

 

[Estro Felino]

Freedom, while often abused by judges, is not
total in common law. Here, they sometimes
receive scrutiny & sanction for egregious behavior.

I suppose that some judges here might embrace
your philosophy, & refuse to convict people who violate
anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-contraception,
anti-miscegenation, & other anti-liberty laws. While
others might convict & imprison women for having
miscarried.
The law & justice would become a kind of lottery,
wherein de jure & de facto laws are unknown until
one rolls the dice by encountering this or that
prosecutor or judge.

Time will tell. So far no judge has ever condemned a woman for having miscarried a baby.
I believe it will never happen. Since abortion and miscarriage are two completely different things. And it is great that in English there are two different terms, whereas in my language we have just one term (we call miscarriage "spontaneous abortion").
That said, people are really overreacting. There are so many contraceptives and contraception methods available.
And they do work.

 

[Revoltingest]

Time will tell. So far no judge has ever condemned a woman for having miscarried a baby.

Well, they're just getting started.
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages

I believe it will never happen. Since abortion and miscarriage are two completely different things. And it is great that in English there are two different terms, whereas in my language we have just one term (we call miscarriage "spontaneous abortion").
That said, people are really overreacting. There are so many contraceptives and contraception methods available.
And they do work.

Perhaps the women who get arrested for miscarriages
think it's the government that's over-reacting, eh.

 

[danieldemol]

So only allow secular forces to indoctrinate these putative powerless into harmful teachings?

Nope. Allow no one to indoctrinate them in harmful teachings.

School should be the place for learning sciences and arts etc, not the place for learning dogmas.

In my opinion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nope. Allow no one to indoctrinate them in harmful teachings.

School should be the place for learning sciences and arts etc, not the place for learning dogmas.

In my opinion.

A problem I've heard from many fundies is that they
don't have "dogma"....they have The Truth. This justifies
having one religion (theirs, of course) being reality.
Oh, how often I've heard that my beliefs stem from Satan.
All my personal faults are the issue....not the issues.
This makes discussion very difficult when simplistic magical
beliefs outweigh the complexities of a multi-cultural society,
& the result can be as severe as prison over things like
health care.

One such discussion ended with....
"God said it.
I believe it.
Nuff said."

 

[Mister Emu]

Always glad to see religious freedom expanding in my lifetime, instead of constricting.

In fact, one of his players actually told his father that he was afraid he'd get less play time if he didn't stay and participate.

What was his basis for that fear? Did he witness someone not participate and receive less playing time in retaliation? Was it just an unsupported assumption on his part?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Always glad to see religious freedom expanding in my lifetime, instead of constricting.


What was his basis for that fear? Did he witness someone not participate and receive less playing time in retaliation? Was it just an unsupported assumption on his part?

I take it, from your question, that while you approve of religious freedom, you have little understanding of the human psychology that created religion? Nor why that psychology, once creating religion, insists it knows the "right one?"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Time will tell. So far no judge has ever condemned a woman for having miscarried a baby.
I believe it will never happen. Since abortion and miscarriage are two completely different things. And it is great that in English there are two different terms, whereas in my language we have just one term (we call miscarriage "spontaneous abortion").

Oh, yes, two different terms. But after the fact, without having observed the fact, how would one determine the difference? Was it spontaneous, or was it caused?

That said, people are really overreacting. There are so many contraceptives and contraception methods available.
And they do work.

I do not disagree with that, and I am 100% onside -- I truly wish more people entered into their sexual relationships having done all the "pre-work" needed to make it pleasant and safe.

But....I don't know about you, but I was young once. I've known many other people who were young once, and I've learned that, well, for about a million reasons (reasons built into the creature that were are by nature) we don't always do the "pre-work," and as a result, stuff happens. And it will continue to happen. When you figure out how to change the actual nature of the human being in the most fundamental ways, maybe you'll change that -- but we're not there yet.

 

[Mister Emu]

I take it, from your question, that while you approve of religious freedom, you have little understanding of the human psychology that created religion? Nor why that psychology, once creating religion, insists it knows the "right one?"

The only thing that you should take from my question is that I am asking what the basis of such a fear is.

Let us agree for the argument's sake that I do indeed believe I know some amount of "the truth". What has that got to do with a specific fear of direct retaliation?