"Survey: 8% of Public School Students Have Had a Teacher Lead the Class in Prayer"

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I gave the site. I said that at a 12 cell zygote, the person didn't even know they were pregnant. He said I was wrong and need to learn science. So I gave a site which said at 4 weeks it is 32 cells and the size of a poppy seed. How much more smaller if it is almost 3 times smaller?

Even showed a picture.

So a woman still doesn't know she's pregnant, is wondering if maybe her period is late and DEFINITELY doesn't know she has a baby.

Why do you say that what I did and sited doesn't involve science?

I never saw any photo-- likely because I may have blocked FORCED-BIRTHER websites, as they too often harbor computer viruses.

And none of those sites? Are accurate-- they all LIE. Every single FORCED-BIRTHER website LIES, all the time, with every lying "photo".

 

[PruePhillip]

Hmmm, first I've heard of the Great Project of Western society. Interesting.

2001-2015 Gallop figures on approval rates for moral issues in USA:

Gay lesbian 40 to 63%.
Baby outside marriage 45 to 61%.
Casual sex 53 to 68%.
Divorce 59 to 71%.
Polygamy 7 to 16%.
Doctor suicide 49 to 56%.
Personal suicide13 to 19%.
Gambling 63 to 67%.
Abortion 42 to 45%.
Married men having affairs 7 to 8%.
​

It's a project the activists don't recognize, or admit to.
Reminded of an activist in Aust who wanted to make his own cause because all other causes
(at the time) were taken. So Phillip Nitschke promoted euthanasia.
Interesting. There was an area of social behavior that wasn't under attack.

And it's super hard to argue with activists.
You can't present the Big Picture of the rainbow project because each person is just like a single
termite and will respond to questions with the standard line, "I don't know anything about that,
I just believe in...." and cite their particular cause.

ie

Me - "You okay with gay boys, a culture of casual sex and the sexualization of society?"
Activist - "I don't know anything about that, I just believe in gay marriage."

It's here now with transgender politics. I ask people if they are okay with legislation revoking rights of
parents (who should know) when children want sex changes. Standard reply, "I don't know about that,
I just believe children should chose their own gender."

It's all a part of the same rainbow coalition. No wonder so many foreign govts fear their own citizens
will go down that path.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

It's a project the activists don't recognize, or admit to.
Reminded of an activist in Aust who wanted to make his own cause because all other causes
(at the time) were taken. So Phillip Nitschke promoted euthanasia.
Interesting. There was an area of social behavior that wasn't under attack.

And it's super hard to argue with activists.
You can't present the Big Picture of the rainbow project because each person is just like a single
termite and will respond to questions with the standard line, "I don't know anything about that,
I just believe in...." and cite their particular cause.

ie

Me - "You okay with gay boys, a culture of casual sex and the sexualization of society?"
Activist - "I don't know anything about that, I just believe in gay marriage."

It's here now with transgender politics. I ask people if they are okay with legislation revoking rights of
parents (who should know) when children want sex changes. Standard reply, "I don't know about that,
I just believe children should chose their own gender."

It's all a part of the same rainbow coalition. No wonder so many foreign govts fear their own citizens
will go down that path.

We GET it... you hate the gays. Gotcha.

 

[MikeDwight]

If more women watched Sailor Moon, we'd finally have them compliant and obedient from Birth! ? no? yes no? yes.

 

[PruePhillip]

We GET it... you hate the gays. Gotcha.

First time I encountered this mentality was during the Vietnam War. I asked protestors
something along the lines of "If North Vietnam is only concerned for the liberation
of South Vietnam then why has it got armies in Cambodia and Laos?"

To which they replied, "We know nothing about that. We just are opposed to
American forces being in South Vietnam."

Cambodia and Laos became Communist, like South Vietnam. Nothing about
"liberation" at all.
These activists suffered from two conditions (which didn't effect them too much,
just the people of Indochina)

1 - intellectual laziness
2 - intellectual dishonesty

And this is what I see in your response. It's lazy and dishonest.

 

[MikeDwight]

Cambodia saw us bombing things, its Public Relations and hearts and minds all the time. Its like more people died in Japan from regular bombing than atomic bombs. Far more I think. Cambodian peasants ran to the airport and tore up airplanes, some weird thing like that. desperation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I said... I quoted from the same site. Obviously the site must be wrong but at 12 cells, you still don't know you are pregnant which is what Bob and I were discussing.

If you want to start a strawman issue, I'm not buying.

No, hardly. You did not understand Bob's point. If anyone strawmanned it was you. He mentioned emergency contraceptives which anti-abortion fanatics call "abortion pills". At that time that is all that often is in existence.

By the way, how do you handle the Bible's support for abortion? And where does it ever say that abortion is wrong?

 

[Kenny]

No, hardly. You did not understand Bob's point. If anyone strawmanned it was you. He mentioned emergency contraceptives which anti-abortion fanatics call "abortion pills". At that time that is all that often is in existence.

By the way, how do you handle the Bible's support for abortion? And where does it ever say that abortion is wrong?

Where does it say it is right? Do you get a prize when in a fight you kill the baby?

And where does it say don't take LSD?

Common sense should rule.

 

[HonestJoe]

First, "forced" and "leading" are two different words - thank you for adjusting.

Clarifying rather than adjusting. Now you understand my point about the students not being permitted to leave and therefore having something imposed upon them, do you accept it is both wrong and illegal (regardless of the religious involved)?

So, which is worse. A 1 minute prayer or complete teaching of LGBT?

Why do we need to play two entirely different things off against each other? The rights and wrongs of one has zero impact on the rights and wrongs of the other. We could (try to) stop both, neither or only one of them. We an treat individual incidents in either area on their own merits and address them appropriately.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where does it say it is right? Do you get a prize when in a fight you kill the baby?

And where does it say don't take LSD?

Common sense should rule.

You should know by now from all of the debates that you have lost that "common sense" is almost always an appeal to personal prejudice. The Bible makes it clear that a baby is not a baby until it takes the breath of life and specifically allows it in some cases.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Conservatism is to help the poor and affected.

Not in the US, it's not. They use help as a guise to proselytize.

 

[Sand Dancer]

That is correct.

Life is a lot harder now than it was 60 years ago.

Not hardly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not hardly.

Hah! That is what you think. It was too easier and I can prove it. Sixty years ago all I had to do was sleep and eat. No worries, no cares. Heck I did not even dress myself. Now I have to do EVERYTHING, including working for a living.

 

[Kenny]

Clarifying rather than adjusting. Now you understand my point about the students not being permitted to leave and therefore having something imposed upon them, do you accept it is both wrong and illegal (regardless of the religious involved)?

Why do we need to play two entirely different things off against each other? The rights and wrongs of one has zero impact on the rights and wrongs of the other. We could (try to) stop both, neither or only one of them. We an treat individual incidents in either area on their own merits and address them appropriately.

I just wanted to make sure that you were even. Sure, I agree it wouldn't be right. However, if it is all right for teachers to promote something other than the three R's and other proper subjects, then I would demand equal time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I just wanted to make sure that you were even. Sure, I agree it wouldn't be right. However, if it is all right for teachers to promote something other than the three R's and other proper subjects, then I would demand equal time.

And they should not do that. And sorry, one wrong does not right another. Of course you do not like some of the subjects that they are supposed to teach, so I am not sure that you are being 100% on the level here.

But all formal religious practices are banned in schools. I do think that at times they need to be careful when teaching of other religions. For example some of the teachings of Islam may cross that line too.

 

[Sand Dancer]

What if I said I was gay?
Lots of gays see the Cultural Marxists and haters as just exploiting them.
Transsexuals in America have said the same.

If you Google the "Frankfurt School" there's a ton of stuff on how political
activists can work with, or create, social issues that help foment social
revolution.

Don't worry. Polygamy is in its way, too. If you oppose it now, you won't
when the issue arrives (now close to 1 in 5 Americans support it.)

Polygamy was good enough for the Bible times, it's good enough for now.

 

[HonestJoe]

I just wanted to make sure that you were even. Sure, I agree it wouldn't be right. However, if it is all right for teachers to promote something other than the three R's and other proper subjects, then I would demand equal time.

Again, you’re unnecessarily playing entirely unconnected things off against each other. The is clearly a vast range of things that a teacher could “promote” and they’re not all going to be of equal value or concern. There will be things teachers legitimately promote, directly or indirectly – discipline, politeness, safety etc. - so by your argument, literally anything else is automatically legitimised. That obviously isn’t how it works.

Every situation needs to be addressed on its individual merits. Religious practice in schools has been addressed and the specific case of teachers leading students in prayer clearly and unconditionally been declared inappropriate. Lessons about LGBT issues has also been addressed, though that is still more of an ongoing process, and the rights and wrongs in the specific case of the material you referred to will be a legitimate part of that. The two topics remain entirely unrelated though, with the correct conclusions of one having literally zero impact on the correct conclusions in the other.

 

[Kenny]

Again, you’re unnecessarily playing entirely unconnected things off against each other. The is clearly a vast range of things that a teacher could “promote” and they’re not all going to be of equal value or concern. There will be things teachers legitimately promote, directly or indirectly – discipline, politeness, safety etc. - so by your argument, literally anything else is automatically legitimised. That obviously isn’t how it works.

Every situation needs to be addressed on its individual merits. Religious practice in schools has been addressed and the specific case of teachers leading students in prayer clearly and unconditionally been declared inappropriate. Lessons about LGBT issues has also been addressed, though that is still more of an ongoing process, and the rights and wrongs in the specific case of the material you referred to will be a legitimate part of that. The two topics remain entirely unrelated though, with the correct conclusions of one having literally zero impact on the correct conclusions in the other.

That may be true... but I see it as one. If education (which does include disciple, politeness and safety) is about giving an education on information that will help the student (reading, writing, math, history, geography etc), then let's keep "indoctrination" (which includes religion, sexual preferences, political bias) out.

So I'm talking about indoctrination, which is the macro issue, while you are looking at it with a micro view.

 

[HonestJoe]

That may be true... but I see it as one. If education (which does include disciple, politeness and safety) is about giving an education on information that will help the student (reading, writing, math, history, geography etc), then let's keep "indoctrination" (which includes religion, sexual preferences, political bias) out.

Fine, but that is completely contradicted by your initial defence of teacher-led prayer on the basis of “religious freedom” so I can’t trust that you’re not just playing along as a means to an end. I’m not playing that game though. If you want to discuss LGBT lessons in schools, you’ll need to start a thread about it (or find an idiot to bite here).

 

[Kenny]

Fine, but that is completely contradicted by your initial defence of teacher-led prayer on the basis of “religious freedom” so I can’t trust that you’re not just playing along as a means to an end. I’m not playing that game though. If you want to discuss LGBT lessons in schools, you’ll need to start a thread about it (or find an idiot to bite here).

The initial posts was just to rile up the OP who generally posts antiChristian posts - but you don’t have to believe me

Your posts were cogent and well thought out so I thought I would respond honestly