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Swear Religious Oath Or Get The Boot From Air Force

Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
esmith said:
Well let's look at in a linguistic sense.

The issue is the final 4 words in the enlistment oath....."So help me God".
Now in actuality the phrase is not implying that one is "swearing an oath to a god", only that one is asking help to fulfill the "oath" to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice". So in actuality if one is asking for help from a god, it all depends on ones definition of a "god". Some think money is their 'god". Yeah, Yeah I know....the term "God" as far as the oath goes refers to a religious God, but if the guy wants to stay in the military, it is not a democracy. I say tough ****.
Click to expand...
Money is "God"?
Semantic hogwash.
We're not a theocracy (ostensibly).
We heathens will eventually defeat religious indoctrination in the military just as we're doing in public schools.
Resistance is futile!

Here's a little test I came up with many years ago:
1) Take a group of believers who claim we shouldn't resist swearing an oath to "God" because it's just a perfunctory & de minimis.
2) Replace "God" with "Allah".
3) Force same group to swear modified oath.
4) Measure percentage of fulminating fundies who bristle at the change because it imposes the wrong religion upon them.

Step 2 could also replace "God" with: "Satan", "Zeus", "Goddess"
 
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esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
Wirey said:
So as long as they're receiving help (and moral guidance) from, say, Allah, you're okay with it, infidel? Or maybe you could ask them to just do their job.
Click to expand...

I could and did care less what religion or religion-not a person was in the military. As long as they did their job and by their actions did not jeopardize the lives of others or bring discredit upon the service or the country then it was fine with me. In other words do exactly what they swore an oath to do when they raised their right hand.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
esmith said:
I could and did care less what religion or religion-not a person was in the military. As long as they did their job and by their actions did not jeopardize the lives of others or bring discredit upon the service or the country then it was fine with me. In other words do exactly what they swore an oath to do when they raised their right hand.
Click to expand...
If you had to swear an oath to "Allah" (ie, replacing "God" with "Allah" in the same oath), would you?

People's gonna do what people's gonna do.
Oaths don't make no never mind.
Just ask Nidal Hasan & Ivan Lopez.


How did a guy named "Lopez" get a first name of "Ivan" anyway?
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
Revoltingest said:
Why refuse?
After all, the Air Force isn't a democracy, so you should say what they tell you to say.
If atheists can say an oath to God, why can't believers say an oath to Allah?
Click to expand...

Moot point.....English is the language of the US military as far as I know. If you can not speak English can you enlist? I think not.
 
Wirey

Wirey

Fartist
esmith said:
Moot point.....English is the language of the US military as far as I know. If you can not speak English can you enlist? I think not.
Click to expand...

The point is that it's pointless. I know there's no God, so if I swear the oath just to keep my job, what was the point? The oath accomplishes nothing except to insult everyone who doesn't believe in God, and give religious nuts the idea that a plane dropping bombs on someone is a Christian act.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
esmith said:
Moot point.....English is the language of the US military as far as I know. If you can not speak English can you enlist? I think not.
Click to expand...
Hypothetical scenarios to make a point typically are moot.
Suppose you had to say something else in English....
"...so help me Satan."?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Wirey said:
The point is that it's pointless. I know there's no God, so if I swear the oath just to keep my job, what was the point? The oath accomplishes nothing except to insult everyone who doesn't believe in God, and give religious nuts the idea that a plane dropping bombs on someone is a Christian act.
Click to expand...
Now here is an appropriate oath for soldiers....
[youtube]-NzFJxX8yoY[/youtube]
 
4consideration

4consideration

*
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
We heathens don't force the faithful to swear there's no God.
So why do they demand that everyone swear an oath to their God?
Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force

I bet they'd blow a gasket if they knew how many atheists like me
designed the planes they depend upon for their very existence.
Click to expand...

According to the article this seems to be a new policy implemented in 2013. Apparently other branches allow for the person to omit the part about swearing to God.

I think this would be something the Commander in Chief could rectify, especially since it was a policy implemented during his tenure.
 
lewisnotmiller

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
esmith said:
Well let's look at in a linguistic sense.

The issue is the final 4 words in the enlistment oath....."So help me God".
Now in actuality the phrase is not implying that one is "swearing an oath to a god", only that one is asking help to fulfill the "oath" to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice". So in actuality if one is asking for help from a god, it all depends on ones definition of a "god". Some think money is their 'god". Yeah, Yeah I know....the term "God" as far as the oath goes refers to a religious God, but if the guy wants to stay in the military, it is not a democracy. I say tough ****.
Click to expand...

What the heck is the point of adding 'So help me God' to the oath in the first place? What is the reasoning, and what does is add?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
4consideration said:
According to the article this seems to be a new policy implemented in 2013. Apparently other branches allow for the person to omit the part about swearing to God.
I think this would be something the Commander in Chief could rectify, especially since it was a policy implemented during his tenure.
Click to expand...
Clearly, it's Bush's fault.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Here's the oath that Arlo Guthrie said to the Army shrink.....
Shrink, I want to kill.
I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill.
Kill.
I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth.
Eat dead burnt bodies.
I mean kill, Kill, KILL, KILL.
Click to expand...
It's more to the point, & it's secular too!
 
A

AsheCorvus

New Member
Revoltingest said:
I believe the rationale is that "God" applies to any religion.
But ya gotta have a religion. Without one, what's to prevent
you from doing something like becoming a murderous terrorist?
Click to expand...

Most terrorist are of modified religious faiths. (Such as Six Pillar Islam).
 
Apple Sugar

Apple Sugar

Active Member
This was old news and this article/thread title wholly inaccurate now, back in later September.

Airmen No Longer Required to Say ‘So Help Me God’ During Oath



Revoltingest said:
We heathens don't force the faithful to swear there's no God.
So why do they demand that everyone swear an oath to their God?
Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force

I bet they'd blow a gasket if they knew how many atheists like me
designed the planes they depend upon for their very existence.
Click to expand...
 
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