Taken me a lifetime to believe as I do and I still have questions

[Debater Slayer]

It would be akin to rejecting him as a prophet, basically. You'd definitely be playing twister trying to make it work. It would be bad theology because it simply wouldn't work unless you turned Islamic doctrine into a pretzel. I would call it bad theology; this is a phrase perhaps more used in Anglican and Catholic circles but it does have a meaning, and is usually applied when the theology is ill thought out, usually on the basis of a bad reading of scripture or something that would violate philosophical norms universally held within the faith (in this case monotheism and the writings of the Fathers).

I can see why extremely unorthodox positions sometimes cause controversy, but considering that some of them have resulted in reform or increased support for civil rights and freedoms, I just rarely find myself objecting to them or dismissing them as "bad theology" or anything of the sort. At worst, I would say that some of them are clearly inconsistent with the intention behind the text or the contextual meaning thereof, but I don't see that as necessarily harmful unless it leads to propagation of harmful beliefs or support for harming any given person or group.

My background, which is from a highly conservative Islamic region, undoubtedly influences my views on this, because I've seen so much hatred and support for persecution being passed off as orthodoxy and tradition and being enshrined or defended on that basis, and I've seen so many attempts at reform and advancement of human rights being dismissed as "heretical," "whimsical," "dishonest," etc. I've developed a staunch sympathy for individualism in one's worldview and diversity of religious and ideological interpretations mainly as a result of that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? While god may be in the house, most prayers and worship services praise the good news of Jesus from the new testament. During my days at church I felt praying to Jesus was a waste of time there praying to god made better sense to me.

People repeat word for word scripture from the bible if it say pray this in my name and god will hear you. At the end prayer it is said, "in Jesus name" because the bible told me so.

Christians are charged to live life as Jesus did. The bible states Jesus was a perfect man, without sin. How is that relevant today, knowing according to the. bible everyone has sinned and come short of god's glory?

Church and religions are in the business of providing godly services, prayer, support, worship and other activities. These things cost money so tithing is made by attendees and supporters to ensure the longevity and prosperity of the church and religion.

Church leaders are ordinary men and women. They are not any different than you or me, so they do not deserve to be set on a pedestal, even though they may consider themselves better, holier etc.

The Trinity is a strange concept. There are some rather extreme sects that claim it is heresy, but then they forget one of the main reasons that it was invented in the first place.


To most Christians Jesus is the sane part of the three in one version of God. The God of the Old Testament was rather cranky. So if one is going to pray to God one would pray to the most sane part of him.


Okay, it does not make a lot of sense, but none of Christianity does if one does a rational analysis of it.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Maybe...coz they don't like what God had
to say God as per OT is pretty harsh.

Slaughter children left n right, rules for slavery,
stoning of unmarried lovers...

Pretty tough act to follow.

I agree except with a twist. I don't god per say as individual in charge of everything that happens. I see god as an entity that everything and everyone is god as a whole entity. positive and negative forces contributes to the big god, world, universe, life and death. This is the way I see god as the life force everyone contributes to. God did not directly cause people to die or create illnesses, everything did.

 

[Mr. Ed]

In this case, I doubt that you are, but even if you are alone in your thoughts and reasons, I hope you find yourself and your own thoughts to be pleasant enough company.

Where ever i go there I am

 

[Mr. Ed]

So your assumption is that I wish to mock
you and exhibit those other highly negative
other characteristics? Wny?

At a quick assessment I'd say you could
use yourself a brighter outlook, and if you
don't mind me commenting on spiritual
growth, a little more charitable attitude toward
a stranger who means you no harm.

I took offense of your first statement and your assumption about me. Let's start over as it is my intention to be cause trouble.

 

[Muffled]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? While god may be in the house, most prayers and worship services praise the good news of Jesus from the new testament. During my days at church I felt praying to Jesus was a waste of time there praying to god made better sense to me.

People repeat word for word scripture from the bible if it say pray this in my name and god will hear you. At the end prayer it is said, "in Jesus name" because the bible told me so.

Christians are charged to live life as Jesus did. The bible states Jesus was a perfect man, without sin. How is that relevant today, knowing according to the. bible everyone has sinned and come short of god's glory?

Church and religions are in the business of providing godly services, prayer, support, worship and other activities. These things cost money so tithing is made by attendees and supporters to ensure the longevity and prosperity of the church and religion.

Church leaders are ordinary men and women. They are not any different than you or me, so they do not deserve to be set on a pedestal, even though they may consider themselves better, holier etc.

I believe in following Jesus we are following god exactly the way He wills.

I believe that would be due to a lack of knowledge and/or understanding.

I don't believe I have seen anything supporting that concept.

I believe The Paraclete is working sinlessness in us and whatever is lacking is covered by the blood of Jesus.

I believe church leaders have church expertise that we ordnary people don't have just as a doctor knows more about medicine than I do.

 

[Muffled]

praying to Jesus was a waste of time


I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

Regards

I believe of course as usual you ae wrong about this and evidently have refused to come to the truth

 

[Muffled]

What do I hope to gain from RF? Affirmation and confirmation I am not alone in thoughts and reasons

I believe if you like confirmation bias there are plenty of people on here who don't listen to reason.

 

[Audie]

I believe in following Jesus we are following god exactly the way He wills.

I believe that would be due to a lack of knowledge and/or understanding.

I don't believe I have seen anything supporting that concept.

I believe The Paraclete is working sinlessness in us and whatever is lacking is covered by the blood of Jesus.

I believe church leaders have church expertise that we ordnary people don't have just as a doctor knows more about medicine than I do.

Of course you "believe".

It's what " believers" do. They just go about
believing things. Some believe this, others
that.

Impervious to fact or reason.
The more those are rejected
the greater the merit of Belief.

 

[Mr. Ed]

I’ll take that into consideration

 

[paarsurrey]

praying to Jesus was a waste of time
Mr. Ed said:

• #1

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? While god may be in the house, most prayers and worship services praise the good news of Jesus from the new testament. During my days at church I felt praying to Jesus was a waste of time there praying to god made better sense to me.

People repeat word for word scripture from the bible if it say pray this in my name and god will hear you. At the end prayer it is said, "in Jesus name" because the bible told me so.

Christians are charged to live life as Jesus did. The bible states Jesus was a perfect man, without sin. How is that relevant today, knowing according to the. bible everyone has sinned and come short of god's glory?

Church and religions are in the business of providing godly services, prayer, support, worship and other activities. These things cost money so tithing is made by attendees and supporters to ensure the longevity and prosperity of the church and religion.

Church leaders are ordinary men and women. They are not any different than you or me, so they do not deserve to be set on a pedestal, even though they may consider themselves better, holier etc.

• paarsurrey wrote #3
• I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

• #10

I'm not sure that's universally true, is it? Though it may be the official church doctrine, in Orthodox and Catholic theology. How about the many Protestant sects? I honestly don't know, but I think the question of the divine nature of Christ is unresolved in the hearts of many Christians, especially those who wear their faith loosely.

Trinitarianism implies a distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; and Christ prayed to the Father in the garden, and called out to Him in despair on the cross. The Jesus of the Gospels was no ordinary man, but he undoubtedly was a man, and as a man he prayed to God in his darkest moments.

Personally I do pray to Jesus, but then I also pray to the Virgin Mary, and I'm not entirely sure why. When I pray to God, that's like reaching out directly toward the source.

" The Jesus of the Gospels was no ordinary man, but he undoubtedly was a man, and as a man he prayed to God in his darkest moments. "

• paarsurrey wrote #40

I agree with your above words/sentence.
paarsurrey adds:

• #52

And Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah never claimed to be god, the Israelites were never waiting for a God to come, never ever, please, right?

Regards

 

[chinu]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god?

Because, helplessly they don't know difference between following their own ego and jesus.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? While god may be in the house, most prayers and worship services praise the good news of Jesus from the new testament. During my days at church I felt praying to Jesus was a waste of time there praying to god made better sense to me.

People repeat word for word scripture from the bible if it say pray this in my name and god will hear you. At the end prayer it is said, "in Jesus name" because the bible told me so.

It's quite simple, really. Christianity (at least Catholicism) teaches that Jesus is the intermediary between man and God.

Christians are charged to live life as Jesus did. The bible states Jesus was a perfect man, without sin. How is that relevant today, knowing according to the. bible everyone has sinned and come short of god's glory?

I'm fairly certain that the charge encourages to live the most virtuous lives they can.

 

[Jedster]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? ...

Most of my Christian friends believe that Jesus is God.
If someone believes in the Biblical God who created everything and is omni-everything, I don't see any problem in believing that said God could come to Earth as person.

It's easier to believe in a form(of God) than something incorporeal, which is hard for human's to relate to.
(IMO)

 

[paarsurrey]

Mr. Ed said:

• #1

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? ...
Most of my Christian friends believe that Jesus is God.

• #54

If someone believes in the Biblical God who created everything and is omni-everything, I don't see any problem in believing that said God could come to Earth as person.

It's easier to believe in a form(of God) than something incorporeal, which is hard for human's to relate to.
(IMO)

• #55

Then, why not believe that Krishna is/was God, he came on Earth earlier than Jesus, please, right??

Regards

 

[Jedster]

Mr. Ed said:

• #1

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? ...
Most of my Christian friends believe that Jesus is God.

• #55

Then, why not believe that Krishna is/was God, he came on Earth earlier than Jesus, please, right??

Regards

The Op was asking why so many Christians pray to Jesus and not God and I answered trying to explain why they do that.
Like the @Mr. Ed , most of my Christian friends believe Jesus is God, so they believe they ARE praying to God.

ETA your comment about Krishna has no relation to the OP

 

[Mr. Ed]

So your assumption is that I wish to mock
you and exhibit those other highly negative
other characteristics? Wny?

At a quick assessment I'd say you could
use yourself a brighter outlook, and if you
don't mind me commenting on spiritual
growth, a little more charitable attitude toward
a stranger who means you no harm.

I am not looking to be judge but it seems you've been on my case since I joined RF. If we can't get along even though it would please me immensely let's make the best of our growing friendship and cherish the time we have together.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Mr. Ed said:

• #1

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god? ...
Most of my Christian friends believe that Jesus is God.

• #55

Then, why not believe that Krishna is/was God, he came on Earth earlier than Jesus, please, right??

Regards

I grew up Christian and that's all I know.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god?

To Christians, Jesus IS God, thus to worship Jesus is to worship God, to them. (I believe differently)

In Judaism, we have a concept called sheetuf, which means association. We say that Christianity is sheetuf because it associates Jesus with God. Another example of sheetuf would be Egyptian monotheism, in which the sun was thought to be God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I grew up Christian and that's all I know.

No offense, Mr Ed, but if that's all you know, then you didn't really delve into your Christian faith much. And that's okay. The average religious person isn't interested in things like reasonings behind doctrines or the history of their faith. They simply want to go to church and worship God and have fellowship--all good stuff.

I am a Jew, and so Jesus has no place in my religion. I certainly do not consider him God. But I would nevertheless encourage you to learn a great deal more about the Christian faith you grew up with before you dispose of it. It's always best to make decisions from an informed position.