Taken me a lifetime to believe as I do and I still have questions

[IndigoChild5559]

This is true, but it's not prayer. This is seeking his help and talking to him. Prayer implies to worship him, which Gospels said is only for God.

Many people pray only to God, and so it is easy to confuse prayer with worship. But not all prayer is worship of a deity. For example, Catholics talk to their saints and ask them to pray for them. They clearly do not think these saints are gods. And their catechism quite clearly teaches that worship is for God alone.

 

[Brian2]

Many people pray only to God, and so it is easy to confuse prayer with worship. But not all prayer is worship of a deity. For example, Catholics talk to their saints and ask them to pray for them. They clearly do not think these saints are gods. And their catechism quite clearly teaches that worship is for God alone.

True, Catholics do that, and people do all sorts of things, but that is no indication of what the Bible says about prayer and is probably no indication of what you think about prayer.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

True, Catholics do that, and people do all sorts of things, but that is no indication of what the Bible says about prayer and is probably no indication of what you think about prayer.

You can correct me if I have this wrong, but I believe that what the Bible forbids is the worship of other gods. It never really addresses talking to non-corporeal beings in a non-worship sense. It also forbids necromancy, which is the contact of the dead in order to gain esoteric knowledge. But it never addresses just innocently talking to your dearly departed spouse.

 

[Muffled]

That is definitely not true - not in modern science or even anthropology. Site your sources

I don't remember the source. I have read many things over the years and never thought to write down a source.

 

[Muffled]

Also, just so you are aware, anthropology is the study of culture. It has nothing to do with brain sizes or anything like that. What you are referring to would be covered in biology which is a different field of science altogether. This has to be one of the most lazily constructed straw men I've seen in a while

I believe anthropology is the study of old things not just culture. according to Wikipedia: Anthropology is the scientific study of humanity, concerned with human behavior, human biology, cultures, societies, and linguistics, in both the present and past, including past human species

 

[Muffled]

Conclusions built on a falsehood are fallacies.

The claim about anthropologists is false,
you can provide no citation because you
made it up.

And pretend you are smarter, and can see through
their dimwitted fallacies.

Seems a bit vain.

But wait, there's more! You know ToE is false
so you know more than ANY scientist, not just
them silly anthros.

And then grestest of all - you know the one true
version of what the Bible means.

You sure there's no ego in there?

Let's see what you actually can understand.

I believe I do not make things up.

 

[Soandso]

I don't remember the source. I have read many things over the years and never thought to write down a source.

Memories are notoriously faulty. Speaking for myself, if I'm unsure of something I think I know or believe, I brush up on it for sure. Sometimes what I thought I knew turned out to be something different than what I remembered. Sometimes when reading things, we glean what we want from the material based on our own internal narratives or biases we had at the time of reading when the truth or point of the matter was something different. Hindsight and open mindedness is a great tool to take advantage of. Might be time to revisit the topic

 

[Link]

Many people pray only to God, and so it is easy to confuse prayer with worship. But not all prayer is worship of a deity. For example, Catholics talk to their saints and ask them to pray for them. They clearly do not think these saints are gods. And their catechism quite clearly teaches that worship is for God alone.

Peace,

Prayer is the following:

(1) Asking from or seeking help from
(2) The object being asked or sought help from is a deity

Without the condition that the object is a deity in the view of the person asking, it's not prayer.

Now there is two ways we can pray to other than God, heedlessly or knowingly.

Heedlessly, if we seek to show off our actions to other than God and hope in response to that, we gain something from them, and entertain hopes and fears in those who we show off our actions to, it can be a form of heedless prayer to people.

If we also rely on a person for our tranquility - it's likely we will seek assistance from them and value them on par with God, so it can be prayer.

Then there is knowingly prayer, which means, that sought help from or asked, is acknowledge to be a deity.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I can understand logical fallacies.

Anthrpologists look at the size of the brain cavity in a skull and state it is more intelligent because the space is bigger but elephants have bigger brain cavities and they ae not more intelligent. My conclusion is that they jump to conclusions based on a logical fallacy.

You have this wrong. It is not the size of the total brain they are considering. It is the size of the cerebral cortex. While the total size of elephant brains may be bigger, their cortex is considerably smaller.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Peace,

Prayer is the following:

(1) Asking from or seeking help from
(2) The object being asked or sought help from is a deity

This is not true. As I already noted, people pray to non-deities all the time. And any earnest request can be called a prayer, as in "Come here, I pray you."

 

[Audie]

I believe I do not make things up.

You are the only one who beieves that.

The thing about "anthropologists" is untrue.
Where did you get it, a comic book?

But " you don't remember". Convenient.

A half remembered sonething from a forgotten source reworked so it fits into your narrative, then presented
as Fact- and a brainless fallacy of them scientists
sos even you can see how dumb they are at a glance...

And you believe that isn't making things up.

And will never agree it's not true.

Some down time in self examination seems called for.

 

[Link]

This is not true. As I already noted, people pray to non-deities all the time. And any earnest request can be called a prayer, as in "Come here, I pray you."

I'll disagree on that. I can ask people things, it does not make it prayer.

 

[meshak2]

Why do Christians primarily follow Jesus instead of god?

Because Christians are called it so becasue they follow Jesus' teaching.

Jesus was sent by God to teach us to love God and love one another.

I suggest reading Jesus' teachings written in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Revelation.

You seem to have grown up in triun god-worshipping faith which is no Christianity at all.

they dont follow Jesus' teachings because they believe Jesus did all the work so His followers don't have to.

You will find out it is completely bogus if you read Jesus' word.

blessings.

 

[paarsurrey]

Mr. Ed said:#1"praying to Jesus was a waste of time"

paarsurrey wrote:

• #3

I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

paarsurrey : responded post#69 friend @Brian2

• #102

There is nothing from Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( in first person) in one's post, why don't you follow him (the Israelite Messiah instead of following anonymous* narrators out of blind-faith and superstition)?
Right?

• #105

Jesus also wanted His disciples to pray to Him.
John* 14:13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

paarsurrey : #111
* "The author of the book containing this chapter is anonymous,"
en.wikipedia.org
Why doesn't one pray to "G-d"-the-Father whom Yeshua- the truthful Israelite himself prayed to even when he was on the Cross, and thus saved his life, please??
Right?

• #112

So when you get a quote from the New Testament about what early Christians used to do, pray to Jesus, that is not a quote from Jesus and do you say it is no good.
Then I give you a quote from Jesus in the gospels and you say that the author is anonymous and so the quote from Jesus is no good. And really since all the gospels are anonymous you don't accept anything from any of them.
So when we add it all up, you don't accept anything from the New Testament, not even what you make the most noise about, the things that Jesus said.

" since all the gospels are anonymous ", said @Brian2 #112
paarsurrey: #116
Third person narratives by anonymous narrators, as one agrees to, to the utmost, are mere hearsay, right?
It is building a house on sand, right?
It can't be the house of Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, right?

• #119

So the gospels are hearsay and not acceptable in a court of law, and even if the author wrote his name on then, that would be no guarantee of anything.
It all comes down to faith in God and in what He prophesied that the Messiah would do and who He would be.
But all that is hearsay and unacceptable in a court of law.
But having faith is not a matter of acceptability in a court of Law.

#134
Faith is a positive thing if it is supported by reason, otherwise, it is simply a blind-faith and is akin to having no faith in other words it is building a house on sand, that can't be the house of Israelite Messiah, please, right?

Regards

 

[meshak2]

I agree with you here that praying to Jesus was a waste of time as Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah himself prayed to G-d the father and never claimed to be god in first person.

Jesus never said He is God nor pray to Him.

He told His followers to pray to the Father, His God, Jesus' God and our God.

 

[Audie]

Jesus never said He is God nor pray to Him.

He told His followers to pray to the Father, His God, Jesus' God and our God.

Who knows what he really said

 

[meshak2]

Who knows what he really said

I have faith in Him.

If you take the time to read what He said you will be in love with Him.

Don't just take what people say about Him.

 

[Audie]

I have faith in Him.

If you take the time to read what He said you will be in love with Him.

Don't just take what people say about Him.

I've read every word in it.
There may be a loveable God.

The one in the Bible sure isn't it.

As for the topic though, nobody knows
what "Jesus" actually said.

If you choose to have faith that people
wrote accurate transcripts decades later,
well, that is some faith.

 

[meshak2]

I've read every word in it.
There may be a loveable God.

The one in the Bible sure isn't it.

As for the topic though, nobody knows
what "Jesus" actually said.

If you choose to have faith that people
wrote accurate transcripts decades later,
well, that is some faith.

I am not here to convince anyone to believe in the world's most nobleman.

It is your loss.

so sad.

 

[Audie]

I am not here to convince anyone to believe in the world's most nobleman.

It is your loss.

so sad.

If you have the capacity to be on topic, try it.
" so sad" is no responce at all.
I pointed out that accurate transcripts from decades later
isn't going to happen.

But if you have a need to think it did, that's hardly my loss