Taking the Precepts

[Unveiled Artist]

I thought I put this in a general Dharmic forum since I'm hoping there would be some Hindus input too.

Background

Okay. I don't like hopping religions so I only practiced two. I was Catholic when I came on here. Now, I don't practice. Was a happy Catholic too. Always been a Spiritualist (communicating with the spirits and family in spirit) but not a religion in itself. I've practiced Zen and Nichiren Buddhism. Zen for two years and Nichiren for five (probably a half year break or less).

I like abrahamic-religion and the spirit-ual nature of religion because the experience of connection beyond material is very powerful. No abrahamic religion (now I know more about Bahai, so I'll throw that in too), doesn't connect with how I define divinity. I don't know any other religions that have that connection.

I'm back to Buddhism (the order: Witch (don't ask. Aunt calls it Wiki-Wiki and this was before Wikipedia came out) -->Pentecostal Christian-->Buddhist-->Catholic-->Spiritualist) Cliff notes: Witch, Buddhist, Christian (Spiritualism helped connect with the saints and the spirit of christ)

Recently...

Anyho. I met a Thai Buddhist monk out of the blue after coming from the same restaurant she was at two weeks ago. She invited me to her monastery and asked me to take the formal buddhist precepts. I'm going in early September. She says The Buddha must have blessed me and told me to come.

Concern

It's not the different religions. I'll always love Catholicism. I'll never forget the spirits. Nothing wrong with that. You'd have to hit me with the rock hammer to have any grudges on christianity.

Like Catholicism, taking vows are very very serious. It's not "read this book and poof! You're a Buddhist." Religion does not work that way.

Questions

1. I was wondering how to prepare for that. In Hinduism, are there vows (lack of better words) that one takes when the follower is ready? Does he prepare himself a specific way by his or her guru?

If I go to the monastery often enough, I may ask her to help me out a bit. I know some Buddhist sects say the teacher will come to you. American culture says, if you wait, you miss out.

2. I do want to prepare to take the vows. I know. Meditation helps. Abstract things like showing compassion and things like that, I know. What about the religious part of it? Those of you who are religious and ritual oriented, in addition to meditation, are there layman Buddhist practices one can prepare oneself to take such vows?

3. Is it like that in Hinduism (and any other Eastern religion besides Buddhism)?

Stuff like that. I really want to prepare for this and not be half minded. Also, this lineage is totally foreign to the modern one I came from. So....

Help?

 

[LuisDantas]

Thailand's Buddhism is 90%+ Theravada. I took the precepts in that school almost 20 years ago before even having significant contact with any other.

I advise you to acquire familiarity with the precepts. They are hardly confidential, and the first five are essentially a vow of striving to acquire and develop an ethical attitude.

Five Precepts - Wikipedia

Decide at your own leisure whether you feel confortable with at least the five first precepts. If you do and you have good reason to expect them to be the ones taken, that shall be enough to take them and, most likely, to earn a practice name at the same ceremony.

The remaining three (or five) precepts are considerably more demanding, at least from a perspective of restriction of behavior, and you may want to check with your friend whether they are included in the ceremony she invited you to, and if so, for how long and under what circunstances (it is not unusual to take the full eight or ten precepts for a limited time period).

The five main precepts, of course, are supposed to be for life.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thailand's Buddhism is 90%+ Theravada. I took the precepts in that school almost 20 years ago before even having significant contact with any other.

I advise you to acquire familiarity with the precepts. They are hardly confidential, and the first five are essentially a vow of striving to acquire and develop an ethical attitude.

Five Precepts - Wikipedia

Decide at your own leisure whether you feel confortable with at least the five first precepts. If you do and you have good reason to expect them to be the ones taken, that shall be enough to take them and, most likely, to earn a practice name at the same ceremony.

The remaining three (or five) precepts are considerably more demanding, at least from a perspective of restriction of behavior, and you may want to check with your friend whether they are included in the ceremony she invited you to, and if so, for how long and under what circunstances (it is not unusual to take the full eight or ten precepts for a limited time period).

The five main precepts, of course, are supposed to be for life.

Yeah. I read a lot of the Pali suttas and very familiar with the precepts. Most of my practice was mahayana buddhism. I believe them all. It's different than when I went into the Church when I was a bit shaky. This is more like you can see the teachings in everyday life that it's not really a belief but it's more, just, life.

Just taking it formally is very new. Other than sexual "misconduct" (LGBTQ count?), lying and stealing aren't really big ones if you live in a good environment. Intoxicants are a no-no. Taking a life, gosh, I'd never be caught with that. It's not really the teachings. I believe those. It's the practice and actually going through with taking the precepts.

But some religions prepare you before you are initiated. Other religions not so much. If only my ADHD brain can sit down and meditate, I'd be on a roll.

 

[Jainarayan]

In Hinduism, are there vows (lack of better words) that one takes when the follower is ready? Does he prepare himself a specific way by his or her guru?

There is something called diksha. It's initiation into a sampradaya (sect, if you will), a mantra and some sort of vow(s) by a guru. It's not to be undertaken lightly, and most people don't do it. Most people don't have a guru.

Otherwise, it's simply a matter of living, thinking and worshiping as a Hindu, and believing you are Hindu. If you do, then you are.

 

[LuisDantas]

Other than sexual "misconduct" (LGBTQ count?),

I suppose you might want to check with that specific monk, but IMO definitely not.

Morality does not relate to LGBTQ, except of course that both connect to sexuality.

lying and stealing aren't really big ones if you live in a good environment. Intoxicants are a no-no. Taking a life, gosh, I'd never be caught with that. It's not really the teachings. I believe those. It's the practice and actually going through with taking the precepts.

But some religions prepare you before you are initiated. Other religions not so much. If only my ADHD brain can sit down and meditate, I'd be on a roll.

I take it that you have some experience with Vipassana (or Zazen and/or Shamata)?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is something called diksha. It's initiation into a sampradaya (sect, if you will), a mantra and some sort of vow(s) by a guru. It's not to be undertaken lightly, and most people don't do it. Most people don't have a guru.

Otherwise, it's simply a matter of living, thinking and worshiping as a Hindu, and believing you are Hindu. If you do, then you are.

I'm thinking Buddhism is the same in regards to what you do is what you are. Americanism influenced a lot of definitions. I was fortunate the lady I spoke with is fluent in English. The other Vietnamese temple I went to with my friend, the monk didn't know English so I couldn't ask him anything. My friend is Vietnamese so they chatted while I paid my respects to The Buddha.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I suppose you might want to check with that specific monk, but IMO definitely not.

Morality does not relate to LGBTQ, except of course that both connect to sexuality.


I take it that you have some experience with Vipassana (or Zazen and/or Shamata)?

Zazen mostly. I didn't know the terminology at the time. It's been years. I could do it then but for some reason I can't get that back anymore. There is a Zen monastery way up in the Shenandoah mountains. There are mostly Theravada temples here if you find them. But, yes, Zazen. I'm not familiar with Shamata, though. Do tell?

 

[LuisDantas]

Shamata, Zazen and Vipassana are very much alike. You should have no trouble adjusting to either if you have ever been confortable with any other of the three.

The main - and nearly only - differences are that Shamata is connected to the Tibetan traditions, Zazen to Zen, Vipassana to Theravada, and the eye postures diverge.

 

[Rinchen]

There is something called diksha. It's initiation into a sampradaya (sect, if you will), a mantra and some sort of vow(s) by a guru. It's not to be undertaken lightly, and most people don't do it. Most people don't have a guru.

Otherwise, it's simply a matter of living, thinking and worshiping as a Hindu, and believing you are Hindu. If you do, then you are.

This is more relevant in Vajrayana, not Theravada. Theravada doesn't use Abhisheka or Diksha, per se.

In all honesty @Carlita, you seem to have a good view of the vows and precepts. When you take the vows and precepts you are gradually aligning your actions with the actions of a Buddha. You will mess up, you will fail some days. And that's okay, just recommit yourself and move on, very little if any room for guilt in Buddhism. Just relax into right action.

 

[Jainarayan]

This is more relevant in Vajrayana, not Theravada.

You are correct. Thanks for adding that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is more relevant in Vajrayana, not Theravada. Theravada doesn't use Abhisheka or Diksha, per se.

In all honesty @Carlita, you seem to have a good view of the vows and precepts. When you take the vows and precepts you are gradually aligning your actions with the actions of a Buddha. You will mess up, you will fail some days. And that's okay, just recommit yourself and move on, very little if any room for guilt in Buddhism. Just relax into right action.

Thank you. Everytime I put the suttas away I always come back. I was thinking for each Path I could focus on and when Im comfortable move to the next. I have to work little bit at a time. Right now Iay focus on Right Speech since Im always talking in one way or another.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I was reading about bathing The Buddha. Its a cleansing peaceful act but I read its done on The Buddha's birthday. Have you guys bath The Buddha statue with blessed water?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I thought I put this in a general Dharmic forum since I'm hoping there would be some Hindus input too.

1. In Hinduism, are there vows (lack of better words) that one takes when the follower is ready? Does he prepare himself a specific way by his or her guru?

2. I do want to prepare to take the vows. I know. Meditation helps. Abstract things like showing compassion and things like that, I know. What about the religious part of it? Those of you who are religious and ritual oriented, in addition to meditation, are there layman Buddhist practices one can prepare oneself to take such vows?
3. Is it like that in Hinduism (and any other Eastern religion besides Buddhism)?

1. There are no vows that must be taken to be a Hindu other than being humane. No gurus necessary and if you ask me I am against having a guru. Read Wikipedia information on Hinduism. It is sufficient for a beginner. Then the scriptures - Upanishads, Ramayana, Srimad Bhagawat Purana, BhagawadGita, but not the Vedas. That will come much later.

2. Vows also come much later, when you completely understand things. What vow should one take and why should one take a vow without understanding things?

I was reading about bathing The Buddha. Its a cleansing peaceful act but I read its done on The Buddha's birthday. Have you guys bath The Buddha statue with blessed water?

Washing a Buddha idol or a Hindu idol is an act of reverence or worship, an act which focuses on the attributes of what the idol represents. It does not require some blessed water but the water after the washing is considered blessed. Hindus use Ganges water if possible or add a few drops of Ganges water, Ganges representing all rivers, which too are considered holy, but that is not an essential requirement.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

1. There are no vows that must be taken to be a Hindu other than being humane. No gurus necessary and if you ask me I am against having a guru. Read Wikipedia information on Hinduism. It is sufficient for a beginner. Then the scriptures - Upanishads, Ramayana, Srimad Bhagawat Purana, BhagawadGita, but not the Vedas. That will come much later.

2. Vows also come much later, when you completely understand things. What vow should one take and why should one take a vow without understanding things?

Thank you. I was wondering if there were some similarities between Hinduism and Buddhism in regards to initiation and if there is one in Hinduism. I'll be going to a Theravada Buddhist temple this Sunday. I know it will be a long day with meditation, Dhamma talk, and taking the precepts. As for the Guru, I'm not sure if there is an equivalent in Buddhism but it's similar, individual oriented practice. I read that some are called to a teacher others the teacher comes to them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I read that some are called to a teacher others the teacher comes to them.

Same clap-trap in Hinduism, but I go by Buddha's 'Kalama Sutta':

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing (anussava),
nor upon tradition (paramparā),
nor upon rumor (itikirā),
nor upon what is in a scripture (piṭaka-sampadāna)
nor upon surmise (takka-hetu),
nor upon an axiom (naya-hetu),
nor upon specious reasoning (ākāra-parivitakka),
nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over (diṭṭhi-nijjhān-akkh-antiyā),
nor upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
nor upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)"

Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.' "
Kalama Sutta - Wikipedia

Buddha, after all, is the ninth and the latest avatara of Lord Vishnu (the one after Lord Krishna) for Hindus.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Buddha, after all, is the ninth and the latest avatara of Lord Vishnu (the one after Lord Krishna) for Hindus.

You gotta be kidding me? Can an avatar be human even though Vishnu is god?

Thank you for the sutta by the way

 

[Aupmanyav]

Avataras are fully human, born the regular way and dying just as we do. Though all that is their 'leela', 'maya' only for a purpose, for instructing us.

 

[LuisDantas]

You gotta be kidding me? Can an avatar be human even though Vishnu is god?

They would not be true and worthwhile gods if they lacked the means to interact with humanity, now would they?

Or to put it in another way: deities are an inspiration for transcendence. For that to be possible, it must be humanly possible to conceive of the goals.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Gods have no limits, they can do whatever you can think, though they do not transgress the rules of a society. (don't miss the pun)
Are they not the keepers of the law?