Talking to Minors About Sex: Where Is the Line in the Sand?

[thomas t]

Lets discuss talking sex with minors of age at church or in the home.

In my opinion sex ed is perfectly fine. It's their right to know about sex.

However, a fellow poster recently wrote: "Even at 10 I was already told about when I marry my body would be my husband's and I would never be allowed to say no."


Telling minors of age about what they purportedly have to do later in their sex life... is harrassment, as I see it. Minors of age are not able to make up their minds about these kinds of moral arguments in this field. If they cannot make up their mind it's abusive to tell them about purported duties in this field, as I see it.

Every human has the right to decide themselves with whom, where, when and under which circumstances they do or do not have sex.
Adults have to respect these rights when they talk to children. When they'll be grown up, it's their right to make these decisions on their own. It's not up to some church elders or whoever that was that taught these "rules"... to decide under which circumstances they will have sex some day.

 

[VoidCat]

I see you quoted me. Congrats on starting a thread about me you owe me tea. Sweet cold tea.

 

[VoidCat]

In all seriousness church leaders can be creepy as hell in this regard...old men telling kids what they should do with their sex life later on in life. The questions my church asked me at 10, 11 and 12...creepy as hell...

 

[thomas t]

In all seriousness church leaders can be creepy as hell in this regard...old men telling kids what they should do with their sex life later on in life. The questions my church asked me at 10, 11 and 12...creepy as hell...

oh my.
You are telling me men and not women were talking about these matters with you when you were under 16! That's unbelievable!
In my opinion, this is a form of sexual harassment.
It is your right to be free from any sexual harassment.

This is my point: these men were not explaining universal standards or anything like this... but explaining their specialities to you and this is exactly where it turns into sexual harassment, as I see it.

I recall that my homosexual neighbor explained me how he had sex with his partner.
Very special.
What did this have to do with me? Nothing.
So this was perhaps a little off. But they were nice people, in general.

But your case is different. These men pretended that they somehow had a right to establish a link between what they think about sex and you as a person. And this is where it comes down to sexual harassment, as I see it.

 

[VoidCat]

oh my.
You are telling me men and not women were talking about these matters with you when you were under 16! That's unbelievable!
In my opinion, this is a form of sexual harassment.
It is your right to be free from any sexual harassment.

This is my point: these men were not explaining universal standards or anything like this... but explaining their specialities to you and this is exactly where it turns into sexual harassment.

I recall that my homosexual neighbor explained me how he had sex with his partner.
What did this have to do with me? Nothing.
It was perhaps a little off.

But your case is different. These men pretended that they somehow had a right to establish a link between what they think about sex and you as a person. And this is where it comes down to sexual harassment, as I see it.

Sometimes a woman would talk about it but yeah mostly men. Creepy as hell I say. Creepy.

 

[VoidCat]

At least it wasn't as bad as the mormon church. I hear they get interviewed at 12...

 

[VoidCat]

The 29 questions Mormons shouldnt ask young children between 12 and 17 about sex mostly are pretty bad.
But they do ask them anyway. Edit: I remember there are kids on this site so I took a video down.

 

[thomas t]

Sometimes a woman would talk about it but yeah mostly men. Creepy as hell I say. Creepy.

even if it's a woman it can be sexual molestation, too, I'm afraid.


This is describing very personal views and specialities, I think. So, merely pointing out how they use to have sex when children are present is already way over the top, as I see it.

But as you say, they didn't merely talk about these matters they went one step further establishing a link between them (the self-declared teachers) and you (pupils being supposed to listen to them) in this field.

This is all sexual harrassment and women can also be guilty of it, too, as I see it, their gender does not exempt them from anything, I'm afraid.

 

[VoidCat]

even if it's a woman it can be sexual molestation, too, I'm afraid.


This is describing very personal views and specialities, I think. So, merely pointing out how they use to have sex when children are present is already way over the top, as I see it.

But as you say, they didn't merely talk about these matters they went one step further establishing a link between them (the self-declared teachers) and you (pupils being supposed to listen to them) in this field.

This is all sexual harrassment and women can also be guilty of it, too, as I see it, their gender does not exempt them from anything, I'm afraid.

Mostly I was referring to being taught how to be a housewife as in like how to clean the house and other things.. Like how to spot an ideal guy...how I was to be married once I get to be an adult...how to be a godly wife...sometimes sex was mentioned but it usually was more like dont have it till you are married and a few things about how masterbastion is immoral and no same sex stuff plus some stuff regarding rape. And stuff regarding how rape is not a thing in marriage. Aside from that not talked about much but even that is kinda creepy.

 

[thomas t]

At least it wasn't as bad as the mormon church. I hear they get interviewed at 12...

thank you for posting this video!


So now, what your (former) church did is just different, I think.
While Mormons ask very private questions, according to this video, that church you were in passed their specialities off as binding standards or even universal standards. (maybe the Morons do the same, I didn't wathc the video to full length)

In my opinion, this is an activity that other people would derive pleasure from. It's their speciality or a speciality of a certain sub-culture as I would call it, but passing it off as something more might do something to them.
"the way we have sex is the right way" is a message they can use for purposes of their own pleasure. Especially if they use it in an environment in which there is hierarchy.

They don't just go to the corner of the street telling all the world "look, this is how we understand sex!" ... they choose minors of age, and there is always a hierarchy involved.

So they might have expressed dominance when talking these matters over with children and to me this would be another form of (mental) abuse.

For sex ed, this is different. There is also a teacher and there are also pupils. But these pupils have a right to learn about these matters so there is much less of a hierarchy as I see it.
The teachers serve the pupils when they engage in sex ed.

 

[thomas t]

And stuff regarding how rape is not a thing in marriage.

this of course is very very special.

It's a sign of their subculture as I would call it.

In some BDSM circles, they define that there is no rape, either. But they define it for themselves. All of them consenting adults.
But (most) BDSM groups do not talk to children about it.. this is how it should be, in my opinion.

 

[VoidCat]

this of course is very very special.

It's a sign of their subculture as I would call it.

In some BDSM circles, they define that there is no rape, either. But they define it for themselves. All of them consenting adults.
But (most) BDSM groups do not talk to children about it.. this is how it should be, in my opinion.

I meant they didn't see martial rape as a real thing as I mention earlier. To me if a women is not wanting to have sex expresses that it's rape. Doesnt matter if it's in marriage. To these folk if rape happens in marriage it doesnt exist. A woman spoke about this once time with the pastor... About how she was attacked by her husband. The pastor told her it wasnt rape as soon you you got married you consented for life.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Lets discuss talking sex with minors of age at church or in the home.

In my opinion sex ed is perfectly fine. It's their right to know about sex.

However, a fellow poster recently wrote: "Even at 10 I was already told about when I marry my body would be my husband's and I would never be allowed to say no."


Telling minors of age about what they purportedly have to do later in their sex life... is harrassment, as I see it. Minors of age are not able to make up their minds about these kinds of moral arguments in this field. If they cannot make up their mind it's abusive to tell them about purported duties in this field, as I see it.

Every human has the right to decide themselves with whom, where, when and under which circumstances they do or do not have sex.
Adults have to respect these rights when they talk to children. When they'll be grown up, it's their right to make these decisions on their own. It's not up to some church elders or whoever that was that taught these "rules"... to decide under which circumstances they will have sex some day.

So JW's have meetings where everyone, from babies to grown adults listen to the same information. So when Watchtower topics like sex and pornography are brought up, involving what is permissable and what is not and what qualifies as fornication, such as oral sex and anal sex, even little kids are exposed to that. What do you make of that?

Examples:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magaz...gust-2017/strip-off-keep-off-old-personality/
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magaz...ember-2018/honor-what-god-has-yoked-together/

"On two occasions, Jesus indicated that the only grounds for a divorce that would free an innocent mate to remarry is por·neiʹa. What does that Greek term mean? Por·neiʹa applies to illicit sexual relations outside Scriptural marriage. It includes adultery, prostitution, and sex relations between unmarried individuals as well as oral and anal sex and the sexual manipulation of the genitals of an individual to whom one is not married.—See The Watchtower, July 15, 2006, “Questions From Readers.”"

Now the way I see it there are two issues here. The first one is that yes, this might expose children to ideas that they didn't think of before, making them curious. But we also can't keep our head in the sand as to what children are discussing with regards to adult subjects. So is it OK for religions to teach what the Bible allows or not to young children to prepare them?

 

[Estro Felino]

Back when I was 11 I still used to think babies were made through deep kissing. I used to watch many telenovelas...I had a very romantic vision of relationships and marriage.
I do think that talking explicitly about sex with prepubescents is not the right thing to do.
I do believe that they are supposed to learn things gradually...that is just my opinion.

 

[thomas t]

So JW's have meetings where everyone, from babies to grown adults listen to the same information. So when Watchtower topics like sex and pornography are brought up, involving what is permissable and what is not and what qualifies as fornication, such as oral sex and anal sex, even little kids are exposed to that. What do you make of that?

Examples:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magaz...gust-2017/strip-off-keep-off-old-personality/
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magaz...ember-2018/honor-what-god-has-yoked-together/

"On two occasions, Jesus indicated that the only grounds for a divorce that would free an innocent mate to remarry is por·neiʹa. What does that Greek term mean? Por·neiʹa applies to illicit sexual relations outside Scriptural marriage. It includes adultery, prostitution, and sex relations between unmarried individuals as well as oral and anal sex and the sexual manipulation of the genitals of an individual to whom one is not married.—See The Watchtower, July 15, 2006, “Questions From Readers.”"

Now the way I see it there are to issues here. The first one is that yes, this might expose children to ideas that they didn't think of before, making them curious. But we also can't keep our head in the sand as to what children are discussing with regards to adult subjects. So is it OK for religions to say what the Bible allows or not from a young age to prepare them?

thank you for posting the info.

In my opinion same rules here: if it's a speciality, they should wait with it until the children get 16.
From a quick glance I gather that the JW teaching concerning sex equals standards you can find in any conservative church.

I personally have issues with it. Not because of the fact that children are involved getting to hear these sorts of teachings (they would get to know them anyway)... it's rather that I dislike these teachings in and of itself.

In my opinion, people should not tar entire professions.
Here in Germany, prostitution and adult films are legal. There are people who make a living with it. There is no reason to look down on them.

 

[Samael_Khan]

thank you for posting the info.

In my opinion same rules here: if it's a speciality, they should wait with it until the children get 16.
From a quick glance I gather that the JW teaching concerning sex equals standards you can find in any conservative church.

I personally have issues with it. Not because of the fact that children are involved getting to hear these sorts of teachings (they would get to know them anyway)... it's rather that I dislike these teachings in and of itself.

In my opinion, people should not tar entire professions.
Here in Germany, prostitution and adult films are legal. There are people who make a living with it. There is no reason to look down on them.

Interesting. Do you think that their views reflect the Bible's view of sex, prostitution, adult films etc?

 

[thomas t]

Interesting. Do you think that their views reflect the Bible's view of sex, prostitution, adult films etc?

I personally take it this way: since you couldn't talk openly about sex 2000 years ago, there a matters that weren't fully understood back then.

Lets think in hypothetics for a moment: imagine God would have wanted to tell people that he disliked abortion, infidelity, abusing people and some other stuff... God would have run into the issue of not being fully understood by the people he would have been talking to.

So I think that Bible verses might have been one size fits all solutions that provided rules that even people without a proper sex education would be able to apply.

I am not saying prostitution is good, I'm also against abortion. But I would absolutely refrain from judging them.

BTW, two prostitutes in Jesus's descendancy in Matthew. This is at least how I understand Tamar and Rahab.

 

[SomeRandom]

In my opinion, sex Ed should be taught young. Maybe preteen age range. Strict fact science based knowledge. Contraception, consent and the biology behind it all
The emotional side should be covered in subjects such as Sociology or as in my case classes called Life Skills (which we called “Lisk” for short.)
In regards to marriage. That should be up to the parent, as religious beliefs will greatly vary.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I personally take it this way: since you couldn't talk openly about sex 2000 years ago, there a matters that weren't fully understood back then.

Lets thinks in hypothetics for a moment: imagine God would have wanted to tell people that he disliked abortion, infidelity, abusing people and some other stuff... God would have run into the issue of not being fully understood by the people he would have been talking to.

So I think that Bible verses might have been one size fits all solutions that provided rules that even people without a proper sex education would be able to apply.

I think he did speak about those things though. There was warnings against spilling seed and causing a miscarriage to a pregnant woman. God constantly describes those who stray from him as committing adultery, which is infidelity, which shows that the concept was there. There were laws against abusing people to a certain extent. Either these people understood those concepts or God wasn't concerned about whether they could comprehend those concepts or not.

I am not saying prostitution is good, I'm also against abortion. But I would absolutely refrain from judging them.

Judging people i would have agreed with even when I was a believer. Thing is that people don't do things necessarily because they don't want to do what is right but their individual experiences lead them on a certain path. I think religious people who are judgemental show a severe lack of understanding and empathy towards those they judge.

BTW, two prostitutes in Jesus's descendancy in Matthew. This is at least how I understand Tamar and Rahab.

Interesting point. I have not made this connection before.

 

[VoidCat]

In my opinion, sex Ed should be taught young. Maybe preteen age range. Strict fact science based knowledge. Contraception, consent and the biology behind it all
The emotional side should be covered in subjects such as Sociology or as in my case classes called Life Skills (which we called “Lisk” for short.)
In regards to marriage. That should be up to the parent, as religious beliefs will greatly vary.

Sorry if you got a lot of alerts right now...I kept rating it wrong by accident! Darn fat fingers.