Tantra in the Ramayana

[TTCUSM]

Namaste Everyone,

As you may know, the Sundara Kanda of the Ramayana describes Hanuman's adventures in Lanka. Canto 9 contains a very interesting description of the women in Ravan's harem:

In the midst of Pushpak lay
The Palace Royal of Ravan. 1
...
Maidens there were in thousands
Dressed they like for fashion show. 34

Drunk they were all to the dregs
Bent their eyelids all downward. 35

Slept one by one all of them
Seemed the place as swan filled pond. 36

Postures theirs were well composed
Breath their smelled as flowers at dawn. 37

Petals like lotus their faces
Seemed in sleep all lotus buds. 38

Zoomed all drunken bees in scores
As would go round flowers in bloom. 39

Celibate as he wished they were
Flowers all real and not damsels. 40

Angel like dames made Ravan's
Harem seem like star filled sky. 41

Ravan in their midst then looked
Like the blooming moon in skies. 42

Felt of Ravan's lovers Hanuman
Were like meteors made there home. 43

Skins theirs were like cloudless skies
Pure were demeanours of those dames. 44

Orgasms multiple they had all
Askance went things on them all. 45

In their coitus furious dots
Vermilion theirs smudged foreheads. 46

Passion with such they coited
Crushed were pearls of chains they wore. 47

Breath of theirs as they made love
Withered all flowers of their garlands. 48

Apparently, Ravan was engaging in maithuna (sexual intercourse) and madya (alcohol consumption) with the women in his harem.
Both maithuna and madya are Tantric rituals.

 

[Arav]

Namaste Everyone,

As you may know, the Sundara Kanda of the Ramayana describes Hanuman's adventures in Lanka. Canto 9 contains a very interesting description of the women in Ravan's harem:



Apparently, Ravan was engaging in maithuna (sexual intercourse) and madya (alcohol consumption) with the women in his harem.
Both maithuna and madya are Tantric rituals.

I dont understand what you are saying here, are you saying that Tantra is ancient (which it is) or are you saying Tantra is bad?

 

[TTCUSM]

I dont understand what you are saying here, are you saying that Tantra is ancient (which it is) or are you saying Tantra is bad?

I'm saying Tantra is ancient.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good things in Tantra.

 

[Arav]

I'm saying Tantra is ancient.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good things in Tantra.

I was just trying to see what point you were trying to make

How old is the Ramayana, I have heard in some places that it is 10,000 years old. Is that an exageration? Sense Tantra is in the Ramayana, doesnt it make Tantra apart of the Vedic tradition and not some non-vedic practice? I am not to educated on this subject, please enlighten me.

 

[Madhuri]

I was just trying to see what point you were trying to make

How old is the Ramayana, I have heard in some places that it is 10,000 years old. Is that an exageration? Sense Tantra is in the Ramayana, doesnt it make Tantra apart of the Vedic tradition and not some non-vedic practice? I am not to educated on this subject, please enlighten me.

It's so hard to know when the Hindu texts were written/compiled. Everyone has a different opinion about it.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Namaste Everyone,

As you may know, the Sundara Kanda of the Ramayana describes Hanuman's adventures in Lanka. Canto 9 contains a very interesting description of the women in Ravan's harem:



Apparently, Ravan was engaging in maithuna (sexual intercourse) and madya (alcohol consumption) with the women in his harem.
Both maithuna and madya are Tantric rituals.

This is not Tantra for the following reasons:

-Mahanirvana Tantra says. He [Householder] should be moderate as to food sleep,speech... I see no moderation in Ravan life. VIII 52.

-In Vamachara Wine is allowed but very long and complex rituals go along with it. There is no mention of any rituals. I have seen a text for one of these rituals it takes well over an hour. Drunkenness is also forbidden. The ritual is a failure if you get drunk. Your quote clearly states that they were drunk.

-Sex in Vamachara orgasms are not allowed the Idea is to transform the sex energy into higher states of consciousness. Your quote also talks of orgasms so I see know reason to think of this in that manor.

I see noting to suggest that this was a Tantric spiritual practice.
If just having sex and drinking makes you a tantrika. Then I guess the list of folks practicing tantra is very long.


Once more very, very few Tantrics practice this type of thing.

 

[Arav]

I'm saying Tantra is ancient.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good things in Tantra.

Im with Wannabe Yogi, this is not Tantra. This is lust and drunkeness, big difference between lust/drunkeness and Tantra.

Why did you just slap on the label of Tantra on something that is visibly lust and drunkeness?

 

[TTCUSM]

This is not Tantra for the following reasons:

-Mahanirvana Tantra says. He [Householder] should be moderate as to food sleep,speech... I see no moderation in Ravan life. VIII 52.

-In Vamachara Wine is allowed but very long and complex rituals go along with it. There is no mention of any rituals. I have seen a text for one of these rituals it takes well over an hour. Drunkenness is also forbidden. The ritual is a failure if you get drunk. Your quote clearly states that they were drunk.

-Sex in Vamachara orgasms are not allowed the Idea is to transform the sex energy into higher states of consciousness. Your quote also talks of orgasms so I see know reason to think of this in that manor.

I see noting to suggest that this was a Tantric spiritual practice.
If just having sex and drinking makes you a tantrika. Then I guess the list of folks practicing tantra is very long.


Once more very, very few Tantrics practice this type of thing.

Thanks for the clarification, WY.