Taoist AND Deist?

[Triumphant_Loser]

So, I am a Deist, but I have been reading the Tao Te Ching here lately and have found it to be really interesting, and has sparked my interest in the Taoist philosophy itself. So my question is, can someone be both Taoist and Deist, or does Taoism require the outright rejection of a deity? Could the concept of the Tao be considered what Western philosophy calls "God?"

 

[Sees]

You will be fine Some older English translations seem to have it in mind actually

I read parts of the Tao Te Ching on a regular basis, have always loved it since I was a kid. Some of the traditional commentary for it is amazing.

 

[Alceste]

A deist or pantheist god is pretty much the only kind that is compatible with taoist cosmology. The tao is not an entity, though. It literally means "way", as in path or method or state of being. Other taoist concepts, like the cosmic male and female are more entity-like. In fact, they do have deities. Lots of them. Just no final boss of everybody. Plus everything in existence is depicted as pouring forth from some great celestial vagina, more or less, so if you're not hung up on a masculine deity you can make it work.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So, I am a Deist, but I have been reading the Tao Te Ching here lately and have found it to be really interesting, and has sparked my interest in the Taoist philosophy itself. So my question is, can someone be both Taoist and Deist, or does Taoism require the outright rejection of a deity? Could the concept of the Tao be considered what Western philosophy calls "God?"

I own a translation of Tao Te Ching myself, and I read parts of it. I really could relate to the philosophy, however I don't practice it, it led me to explore stoic philosophy and prefer that rather.

Deism and Taoism are compatible, most philosophies are compatible. If it weren't compatible, you wouldn't find a way to believe in both, right?

Personally, from what I took from taoist philosophy it seems to lean toward pantheism. But that's just how I view it.

 

[paarsurrey]

So, I am a Deist, but I have been reading the Tao Te Ching here lately and have found it to be really interesting, and has sparked my interest in the Taoist philosophy itself. So my question is, can someone be both Taoist and Deist, or does Taoism require the outright rejection of a deity? Could the concept of the Tao be considered what Western philosophy calls "God?"

Tao is another name of the One-True-God, for sure.

Regards

 

[1137]

So, I am a Deist, but I have been reading the Tao Te Ching here lately and have found it to be really interesting, and has sparked my interest in the Taoist philosophy itself. So my question is, can someone be both Taoist and Deist, or does Taoism require the outright rejection of a deity? Could the concept of the Tao be considered what Western philosophy calls "God?"

They're very compatible. The Tao resembles Ma'at of ancient Egyptian religion, which was put in place to keep order in the universe. I'd say look into Ma'at.

 

[Jainarayan]

To the best of my knowledge, any theism in Taoism crept in from Chinese traditional (i.e. 'folk') religion. Many Taoist deities are deified humans.

Tao gives birth to One,
One gives birth to Two,
The Two gives birth to Three,
The Three gives birth to all universal things. - Tao Te Ching chapter 42. That sounds quite deist to me.

 

[idav]

A deist or pantheist god is pretty much the only kind that is compatible with taoist cosmology.

I have to agree with Alceste on this. Deism and Pantheism can definitely be Tao-ish.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

To the best of my knowledge, any theism in Taoism crept in from Chinese traditional (i.e. 'folk') religion. Many Taoist deities are deified humans.

Tao gives birth to One,
One gives birth to Two,
The Two gives birth to Three,
The Three gives birth to all universal things. - Tao Te Ching chapter 42. That sounds quite deist to me.

So, are the "Three Pure Ones" considered to be actual deities then, or are they seen as simply metaphorical?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Tao is another name of the One-True-God, for sure.

Regards

A meaningless assertion.

Then again, even the name "Tao" is unfit.

 

[Jainarayan]

So, are the "Three Pure Ones" considered to be actual deities then, or are they seen as simply metaphorical?

In religious Taoism they are real deities, the highest in the pantheon.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

In religious Taoism they are real deities, the highest in the pantheon.

I'm assuming that since religious Taoism exists, then secular Taoism must exist as well, right? If so, that is what I take more interest in than religious Taoism. Sorry if I sound naive. I am fairly new to the concept of Taoism.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

A meaningless assertion.

Then again, even the name "Tao" is unfit.

I suppose that would be true in a strict sense of the word, considering that it is said that "The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao." I suppose that could apply to even the word "Tao" itself.

 

[DreadFish]

I'm assuming that since religious Taoism exists, then secular Taoism must exist as well, right? If so, that is what I take more interest in than religious Taoism. Sorry if I sound naive. I am fairly new to the concept of Taoism.

Religious Taoism is the one that is influenced by traditional Chinese beliefs. It has the rituals and deities and all that stuff.

The other is Philosophical Taoism. It is concerned with living in accord with the way as is taught in texts like the Tao Te Ching, Zhuangzi and Hua Hu Ching.

Philosophical came first and is much more a living way of relating to life, reality, while Religious is self explanatory: it's a semi-organized religion with doctrines and traditions.

 

[DreadFish]

I forgot to address the OP

So, I can see a lot of similarities between the two. The only contradicting factor is that Deism has a watchmaker who put everything together and let it go, while the Tao is more of an inexplicable, intrinsic infinity from which all things come and which all things are perpetually a part of and flow according to. Very abstract, intuitive stuff.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm assuming that since religious Taoism exists, then secular Taoism must exist as well, right? If so, that is what I take more interest in than religious Taoism. Sorry if I sound naive. I am fairly new to the concept of Taoism.

Yeah, you're referring to philosophical Taoism. It's pretty much devoid of anything theistic. You could call it secular Taoism.

 

[samosasauce]

Oh no no no, there are definite deities in Taoism! However, I'm not sure if the concept of Deism itself is very applicable to Taoism. I could be wrong about that, but I know there are gods in that religion

 

[samosasauce]

Tao is also nothing like god, since God controls all but Tao is closer to an essence

 

[Jainarayan]

Oh no no no, there are definite deities in Taoism! However, I'm not sure if the concept of Deism itself is very applicable to Taoism. I could be wrong about that, but I know there are gods in that religion

But it's not required to worship the deities. The deities are mostly from Chinese folk religion, which deified historical persons. Guan yu, the warrior and protector deity was in real life a military general. He was deified into the so-called god of war (a misnomer, really), and patron of police. The same holds true for Xuan wu, who was (said to be) a historical person, but now is the deity in charge of weather, among other things. The Eight Immortals are also said to have been historical figures, or are at least based on historical figures. Taoism as espoused in the Tao Te Ching, Hua Hu Ching, and by Zhuangzi doesn't require belief in deities. The Three Pure Ones and the Taijitu don't have to worshiped as deities; they really are just concepts. The Tao could be thought of as analogous to the Hindu Brahman, impersonal yet the source and ground of all existence.

 

[idav]

I forgot to address the OP

So, I can see a lot of similarities between the two. The only contradicting factor is that Deism has a watchmaker who put everything together and let it go, while the Tao is more of an inexplicable, intrinsic infinity from which all things come and which all things are perpetually a part of and flow according to. Very abstract, intuitive stuff.

I can see that but at the same time when deism takes out all the miracles stuff it takes away that sort of watchmaker aspect and makes it more inexplicable.