Taxing religion.

[badger]

Henry VIII had the right idea!

 

[Revoltingest]

This shows a gross ignorance about what the housing allowance really is.

The allowance is granted to employees of businesses too where living on site is integral to the job.
I've played that game, although its overall tax fairness could be questioned.

 

[Breathe]

Taxing churches violates the separation between church and state, because it means that the church is supporting the government, thereby becoming part of the government.

Agreed. If you start taxing religious buildings, then, they should be allowed to get involved in politics.

I don't really like that idea, so...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

in the UK Charities are controlled by the charities commission and can be tax exempt.
Religion per say is not.
Charities that are caught out loose their tax exempt status.

Scientology is classed as a business in the UK.

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed. If you start taxing religious buildings, then, they should be allowed to get involved in politics.
I don't really like that idea, so...

They're already into politics, but paying taxes & lifting speech restrictions would simplify the law, raise tax revenue, & increase their liberty.

 

[xkatz]

It may be more "fair" to tax a large and powerful religious organization, like the Roman Catholic Church (not that I am condoning that), but what about less centralized, and less influential religions, such as Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, or Neopagan religions? They have much less influence and money to expend, and many temples/mosques/synagogues/etc would fare badly (if it all) because they lack the centralization and money orginizations such as the RCC have. And to make exceptions in terms of taxes for certain religions/religious orgs is unfair and arbitrary to say the least.

 

[xkatz]

They're already into politics, but paying taxes & lifting speech restrictions would simplify the law, raise tax revenue, & increase their liberty.

So it's wrong for religious organizations to have certain opinions/stances because of the doctrines/theology/philosophy they preach?

 

[Revoltingest]

It may be more "fair" to tax a large and powerful religious organization, like the Roman Catholic Church (not that I am condoning that), but what about less centralized, and less influential religions, such as Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, or Neopagan religions? They have much less influence and money to expend, and many temples/mosques/synagogues/etc would fare badly (if it all) because they lack the centralization and money groups such as the RCC have. And to make exceptions in terms of taxes for certain religions/religious orgs is unfair and arbitrary to say the least.

It's only fair to tax them all.
If they make no profit, they pay no tax.
If they buy property, they pay real estate & personal property tax.

 

[xkatz]

It's only fair to tax them all.
If they make no profit, they pay no tax.

Almost no religious org is for-profit (except certain New Age groups and Scientology). And to say charity is a form of profit is rubbish. Much of the funding/charity goes into helping communities and to help maintain religious facilities. And charity has ALWAYS been a central tenet of all major religions, not a recent invention for the purpose of tax evasion.

If they buy property, they pay real estate & personal property tax.

I am not well versed when it comes to real estate and property tax, so it wouldn't be fair (or wise) of me to have an opinion. However, I can say that if the synagogue I attended growing had to pay various taxes, there would of certainly been no synagogue for our community, as the synagogue had suffered many financial setbacks because it was so underfunded.

 

[Revoltingest]

Almost no religious org is for-profit (except certain New Age groups and Scientology). And to say charity is a form of profit is rubbish.

But I didn't say that.

Much of the funding/charity goes into helping communities and to help maintain religious facilities.

That's fine with me. But let them pay real estate & personal property taxes just as I do.

I am not well versed when it comes to real estate and property tax, so it wouldn't be fair (or wise) of me to have an opinion. However, I can say that if the synagogue I attended growing had to pay various taxes, there would of certainly been no synagogue for our community, as the synagogue had suffered many financial setbacks because it was so underfunded.

If one can't afford to pay the property taxes associated with a property one owns, then one should buy a cheaper one. Certainly, such taxes must be contained better & applied fairly. They destroy businesses too. So this aspect of taxation would be universal in concern. It would be nice to have churches help us lobby for fairer taxation when they have a horse in the race.

 

[Breathe]

Almost no religious org is for-profit (except certain New Age groups and Scientology). And to say charity is a form of profit is rubbish. Much of the funding/charity goes into helping communities and to help maintain religious facilities. And charity has ALWAYS been a central tenet of all major religions, not a recent invention for the purpose of tax evasion.

Exactly. Charity is an important tenet of all religions, save a few newer ones.

I am not well versed when it comes to real estate and property tax, so it wouldn't be fair (or wise) of me to have an opinion. However, I can say that if the synagogue I attended growing had to pay various taxes, there would of certainly been no synagogue for our community, as the synagogue had suffered many financial setbacks because it was so underfunded.

I've been fortunate enough to see the Income & Expenditure sheets for multiple churches and charitable organizations.

They barely scrape by. Most have more going out than coming in.

Taxing places of worship is effectively cutting their hands off.

And then people will *****, "Why aren't they helping anyone?"

 

[Revoltingest]

They barely scrape by. Most have more going out than coming in.
Taxing places of worship is effectively cutting their hands off.
And then people will *****, "Why aren't they helping anyone?"

I feel a need to be snarky.

Oh, boo hoo! "Cutting their hands off"? Really? They buy these great big fancy churches with their giant parking lots, but they don't want to pay for services they use, or pay their fair share supporting local government. The rest of us must pay extra to subsidize them because they can't survive without us. Well, we have a tough time paying bills too, so it's time for them to carry their own weight. Geeze....I'm surprised they're not demanding free gas, electricity, water & sewer too!

There...I feel better now.

 

[Breathe]

I feel a need to be snarky.

Oh, boo hoo! "Cutting their hands off"? Really? They buy these great big fancy churches with their giant parking lots, but they don't want to pay for services they use, or pay their fair share supporting local government. The rest of us must pay extra to subsidize them because they can't survive without us. Well, we have a tough time paying bills too, so it's time for them to carry their own weight. Geeze....I'm surprised they're not demanding free gas, electricity, water & sewer too!

There...I feel better now.

Not here.

 

[Ingledsva]

But that's the point: they don't get a say. Any religious institution that makes public statements about policy, or tells its adherents how to vote has its 501c3 status yanked and are taxed on their income, like any other business.

But that hasn't happened in the last couple of elections. Churches were telling their people how to vote.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

I feel a need to be snarky.

Oh, boo hoo! "Cutting their hands off"? Really? They buy these great big fancy churches with their giant parking lots, but they don't want to pay for services they use, or pay their fair share supporting local government. The rest of us must pay extra to subsidize them because they can't survive without us. Well, we have a tough time paying bills too, so it's time for them to carry their own weight. Geeze....I'm surprised they're not demanding free gas, electricity, water & sewer too!

There...I feel better now.

LOL! I agree. Churches should pay taxes, and they need to start looking at some of their business practices.

Several people that I KNOW here, have turned their homes over to churches, with the understanding that they get to live there until they die, so they no longer have to pay taxes. This is just wrong.

And while we are complaining about religion's practices -- Again - I live in a small town - and the churches here encourage their people to not use contraceptives, and to have many children for Christ. A lot of these baby machines can't afford them and are on welfare, food stamps, and other programs that WE pay for.

I would like to see a change in the welfare system in the USA - saying - the number of children you have when you first go on the welfare tab, is the only amount they will pay for no matter how long, and how many babies you stupidly pump out, after that point!

*

*

 

[Revoltingest]

LOL! I agree. Churches should pay taxes, and they need to start looking at some of their business practices.
Several people that I KNOW here, have turned their homes over to churches, with the understanding that they get to live there until they die, so they no longer have to pay taxes. This is just wrong.
And while we are complaining about religion's practices -- Again - I live in a small town - and the churches here encourage their people to not use contraceptives, and to have many children for Christ. A lot of these baby machines can't afford them and are on welfare, food stamps, and other programs that WE pay for.
I would like to see a change in the welfare system in the USA - saying - the number of children you have when you first go on the welfare tab, is the only amount they will pay for no matter how long, and how many babies you stupidly pump out, after that point!

I sympathize with your latter points, but they will be an impossible sell.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But that's the point: they don't get a say. Any religious institution that makes public statements about policy, or tells its adherents how to vote has its 501c3 status yanked and are taxed on their income, like any other business.

So the LDS Church lost its 501(c)3 status over the Prop 8 issue? Churches never file amicus briefs on policy cases?

This shows a gross ignorance about what the housing allowance really is.

Sure it is.

BTW: remember that I also said I wanted to get rid of special exceptions for churches. This would include the current "ministers are considered self-employed" weirdness of the American tax code.

The allowance is granted to employees of businesses too where living on site is integral to the job.
I've played that game, although its overall tax fairness could be questioned.

It's one thing when a person doesn't get charged room and board when he's working on an offshore oil platform an hour helicopter ride away from the nearest land. It's another when next-door neighbours both make the same commute from the same subdivision to the same business park, but only one of them gets part of their salary tax-free for housing.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's one thing when a person doesn't get charged room and board when he's working on an offshore oil platform an hour helicopter ride away from the nearest land. It's another when next-door neighbours both make the same commute from the same subdivision to the same business park, but only one of them gets part of their salary tax-free for housing.

In my case, a resident manager who lives at a facility, & is available to work 24-7 fully qualifies for tax-free
rent under IRS rules. Of course, fairness is still questionable. But hey, I don't make the rules...I just exploit them.

 

[Awoon]

LOL! I agree. Churches should pay taxes, and they need to start looking at some of their business practices.

Several people that I KNOW here, have turned their homes over to churches, with the understanding that they get to live there until they die, so they no longer have to pay taxes. This is just wrong.

And while we are complaining about religion's practices -- Again - I live in a small town - and the churches here encourage their people to not use contraceptives, and to have many children for Christ. A lot of these baby machines can't afford them and are on welfare, food stamps, and other programs that WE pay for.

I would like to see a change in the welfare system in the USA - saying - the number of children you have when you first go on the welfare tab, is the only amount they will pay for no matter how long, and how many babies you stupidly pump out, after that point!

*

*

How bout if yer a member of a church no welfare from government?

 

[PastorClark]

If you tax the church, then they are part of the Government, if they're part of the Government then they can pass laws, do you really want the churches passing laws? I don't think so.