Teacher: Christian faith prohibits treating transgendered students with respect and dignity

[Prestor John]

Of course the Latter Day Saint is going to spout nonsense.

We can always hold out hope for Tomorrow.

Who knows? Maybe someday, everyone in the class will grow up and recognize that Santa really is just a Child's Story.

And no-- lest you be confused-- that glass is neither half empty, nor half full.

It simply possesses a 50% overflow safety margin.

So anyone can believe that they are members of the opposite sex and then demand that others believe it to?

That isn't nonsense to you?

That's no different than trying to force people to believe in Santa Claus.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why do you believe that an employer can strip an employee of their Constitutional rights?

Which rights do you think are being stripped?

 

[Jose Fly]

Nope as that was the ultimatum of compelled speech he was fired for.

That's called "employment". You don't have free speech rights at work, which is why you can't call your boss names and claim "free speech" when you get fired for it.

There are all sorts of things I am "compelled" to say at work, even down to how I say them. If I refused to abide by those rules, then I have no business working there.

 

[Shad]

That's called "employment". You don't have free speech rights at work, which is why you can't call your boss names and claim "free speech" when you get fired for it.

No such policy was stated. Only administration orders.

There are all sorts of things I am "compelled" to say at work, even down to how I say them. If I refused to abide by those rules, then I have no business working there.

If not contained with a policy and/or your contract your employer can not tell you what to say.

 

[Jose Fly]

No such policy was stated. Only administration orders.

And that's not unusual at places I've worked at.

If not contained with a policy and/or your contract your employer can not tell you what to say.

Sure they can. I can think of several instances at my work where I'm expected to say X, say it a certain way, and if I don't there will be consequences. Yet there is no policy or contract specifically about me saying X.

I mean, I could start sending emails to our partners about purple monkey dragons living on mars and how they control our thoughts, but if I get called out for it by my supervisor, I don't think noting "there's no policy against talking about purple monkey dragons" would get me very far.

It's impossible to create policy or a contract that covers every potential scenario. Instead there's usually some general provision along the lines of being expected to do what your supervisor tells you to do.

 

[Shad]

And that's not unusual at places I've worked at.

Which just means you have accepted illegal conduct without question.

Sure they can. I can think of several instances at my work where I'm expected to say X, say it a certain way, and if I don't there will be consequences. Yet there is no policy or contract specifically about me saying X.

An expectation is not a rule nor a legal basis. It must be part of a conduct policy.

It's impossible to create policy or a contract that covers every potential scenario. Instead there's usually some general provision along the lines of being expected to do what your supervisor tells you to do.

If you want to bow down to illegal conduct go for it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

One thing that I do like about forums such as this is that I do learn new things at times. At 62 the idea of "transsexual" was very foreign to my world when I grew up. And I too balked a bit a that concept. I like to check out both sides of a story, when I can, and I knew that the very well respected Johns Hopkins University opposes transsexual surgery. Or at least it did. It turns out that was largely due to the viewpoints of one man there and now that he is no longer the director and mostly retired Johns Hopkins has now joined the 21st century and they too have facilities for the transgendered folk:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...7d9f521f6b5_story.html?utm_term=.b360ba4e9976

 

[Jose Fly]

Which just means you have accepted illegal conduct without question.

What specific law is my employer breaking?

An expectation is not a rule nor a legal basis. It must be part of a conduct policy.

Nope. When given a direct order from your supervisor, you are expected to carry it out. Don't carry it out and you can expect consequences. It's not complicated.

If you want to bow down to illegal conduct go for it.

Then you have to show what law my employer is breaking.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

One thing that I do like about forums such as this is that I do learn new things at times. At 62 the idea of "transsexual" was very foreign to my world when I grew up. And I too balked a bit a that concept. I like to check out both sides of a story, when I can, and I knew that the very well respected Johns Hopkins University opposes transsexual surgery. Or at least it did. It turns out that was largely due to the viewpoints of one man there and now that he is no longer the director and mostly retired Johns Hopkins has now joined the 21st century and they too have facilities for the transgendered folk:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...7d9f521f6b5_story.html?utm_term=.b360ba4e9976

Yeah, Paul McHugh is just a bigot who allowed his strident religious beliefs to influence his practice to an unprofessional degree. He should've been removed long ago but at least things are improving now. It really was a huge stain on an otherwise venerable instutition.

 

[Shad]

What specific law is my employer breaking?

Contract laws. If the contact does not contain nor reference policy which the employer is subject to, any order outside contractual obligations is a breach of contract and illegal. There are Whistle Blower laws which involve illegal conduct by a business. For example if company is breaching environmental laws an employee can refuse to take part in said breach. If fired for not following orders said laws are protections as this would be a reprisal action for not following orders. The employee can report a breach to government while being protected from reprisal termination. The company can terminate pay and access to their property. However the employee can sue for wrongful termination and breach of contract.

Nope. When given a direct order from your supervisor, you are expected to carry it out. Don't carry it out and you can expect consequences. It's not complicated.

Wrong. You merely do not know your rights as a citizen and employee.

 

[Jose Fly]

Contract laws. If the contact does not contain nor reference policy which the employer is subject to, any order outside contractual obligations is a breach of contract and illegal.

Citation please (specifically supporting the assertion that if something isn't specifically covered in a policy or contract, the employer is powerless to do anything).

If fired for not following orders said laws are protections as this would be a reprisal action for not following orders.

So your argument is that if an employer gives an employee an order and the employee doesn't carry it out, it's "reprisal" for the employer to hold the employee accountable?

Bizarre.

Wrong. You merely do not know your rights as a citizen and employee.

So next time I'm at work, I can just start sending out crazy emails to our partners and since there's no specific policy against the content of those emails, my employer cannot do anything?

Again....bizarre.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Contract laws. If the contact does not contain nor reference policy which the employer is subject to, any order outside contractual obligations is a breach of contract and illegal. There are Whistle Blower laws which involve illegal conduct by a business. For example if company is breaching environmental laws an employee can refuse to take part in said breach. If fired for not following orders said laws are protections as this would be a reprisal action for not following orders. The employee can report a breach to government while being protect from reprisal termination. The company can terminate pay and access to their property. However the employee can sue for wrongful termination and breach of contract.




Wrong. You merely do not know your rights as a citizen and employee.

Are you sure that he does not know his rights? Obviously an employer cannot order you to do something illegal. What rights do you think that he does not know?

 

[Jose Fly]

I looked around at some typical teachers' contracts and noticed that they all pretty much have something in them along the lines of "the Superintendent (or school board) have the right to assign such duties the employee that the Superintendent deems proper". Or they when they outline the list of typical duties of the teacher, there's usually something in there about "other duties as assigned".

So it seems to be common practice to insert a clause into employment contracts that basically says "you'll do whatever we tell you" (as long as its not illegal). I know the written description of my position has a "other duties as assigned" clause in it, and my employer regularly cites it when having me do things that are outside of my normal duties.

Thus, if this teacher's contract has such a clause in it, he can't claim "there's nothing in my contract about you making me do X" as an excuse.

 

[Shad]

Are you sure that he does not know his rights? Obviously an employer cannot order you to do something illegal. What rights do you think that he does not know?

Contractual obligations, wrongful termination, contract breach laws and contract negotiations. An employer can not order an employee to do something unless contractually obligated to. However given human nature people submit to authority more often than questioning it.

 

[Shad]

I looked around at some typical teachers' contracts and noticed that they all pretty much have something in them along the lines of "the Superintendent (or school board) have the right to assign such duties the employee that the Superintendent deems proper". Or they when they outline the list of typical duties of the teacher, there's usually something in there about "other duties as assigned".

Can be challenged on the basis of what a duty is. A teach being assigned duties of a janitor for example.

So it seems to be common practice to insert a clause into employment contracts that basically says "you'll do whatever we tell you" (as long as its not illegal). I know the written description of my position has a "other duties as assigned" clause in it, and my employer regularly cites it when having me do things that are outside of my normal duties.

Sure.

Thus, if this teacher's contract has such a clause in it, he can't claim "there's nothing in my contract about you making me do X" as an excuse.

The "if" is my question. No advocate for his termination has provided anything regarding his contract, city and/or statues that is current.

Yes he can claim it that X is not in his contract thus he has no contractual obligation. Do you know what a contract is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Contractual obligations, wrongful termination, contract breach laws and contract negotiations. An employer can not order an employee to do something unless contractually obligated to. However given human nature people submit to authority more often than questioning it.

Source please. I think that you may be misinterpreting a law.

 

[Curious George]

Why do you believe that an employer can strip an employee of their Constitutional rights?

I think as I do because I understand constitutional rights and employment.

 

[Jose Fly]

Can be challenged on the basis of what a duty is. A teach being assigned duties of a janitor for example.

I would bet it'd be difficult for this teacher to argue that his employer has no right to set the terms on how he treats students.

The "if" is my question. No advocate for his termination has provided anything regarding his contract, city and/or statues that is current.

Probably a reason for that.

Yes he can claim it that X is not in his contract thus he has no contractual obligation. Do you know what a contract is?

Still waiting on that citation that says "if it's not specifically in a contract, the employer is powerless to do anything about it".

Cause I'd love to see my supervisor's reaction when I start sending purple monkey dragon emails to our partners.

 

[Shad]

Source please. I think that you may be misinterpreting a law.

Read US contract laws.

https://www.hg.org/contract-law.html
Contract

Read worker's rights laws

https://www.osha.gov/workers/index.html

Wrongful termination.

https://www.hg.org/wrongful-termination.html

 

[Shad]

I would bet it'd be difficult for this teacher to argue that his employer has no right to set the terms on how he treats students.

He was fired for insubordination not a violation of conduct towards students.

Probably a reason for that.

Speculation

Still waiting on that citation that says "if it's not specifically in a contract, the employer is powerless to do anything about it".

You wont as you are manufacturing a quote for me to look for rather than reading basic contract law and knowing what a contract actually is. You request is a loaded one thus dismissed.

Cause I'd love to see my supervisor's reaction when I start sending purple monkey dragon emails to our partners.

Depends on what your contract contains regarding personal time during work hours and use of company email policy. Try again