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Teenages Steal Car Kill Baby Then Charged With Misdemeanor

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
He ideas were radical, his approved means heinously extreme, amd he'd hate people for selling and buying posters and shirts of him.

It seems to me that "radical ideas" are largely relative to the backdrop against which they arise, and they can be good or bad. Some abolitionists arguably had radical ideas by the standards of their time and culture, didn't they? And that kind of "radicalism" proved essential to advancing human rights and equality. I think that whether or not some of Guevara's ideas were harmful is a separate question from whether they were radical in the context of his time and location.

As for his approved means, I would agree that he was too supportive of the destructive Leninist notion that violence can perfect society. However, he was far from a historical anomaly in holding such views; historical figures ranging from some in the French Revolution and proponents of Manifest Destiny all the way to Leninists and even some Islamists have held variations of the belief that utopian violence is justifiable. This doesn't make any of them less culpable for brutality, but it puts into perspective that such ideologies aren't confined to one person but are rather a product of, among other things, human tribalism, irrationality, and desire for control.

I dislike idealization of Guevara and find him deeply flawed, but I equally oppose categorical demonization of him as if he had been some larger-than-life villain and not largely a product of his circumstances. He was radicalized after seeing the stark inequality and poverty in his region, after all, and much of that was exacerbated and prolonged by the US. I think highlighting this is crucial in any balanced discussion about him, if only because there are a lot of lessons to be learned from it about prevention of radicalization and violence by addressing root causes (e.g., poverty, inequality, and oppression) rather than just talking about the symptoms and resultant side effects (e.g., the desperate and violent measures that some radicals like Guevara and others have resorted to at many different points in history).
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Congratulations! I wouldn't even go there and I aim at just about everything. Make fun of the kids who did it, ridicule their reasons amd the whys, lampoon their thought process. Scoff at the prosecutor if the misdemeanor is it. But poking directly at the dead of a tragedy isn't cool.
I made the point, that's what outrages you.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I dislike idealization of Guevara and find him deeply flawed, but I equally oppose categorical demonization of him as if he had been some larger-than-life villain and not largely a product of his circumstances. He was radicalized after seeing the stark inequality and poverty in his region, after all, and much of that was exacerbated and prolonged by the US. I think highlighting this is crucial in any balanced discussion about him, if only because there are a lot of lessons to be learned from it about prevention of radicalization and violence by addressing root causes (e.g., poverty, inequality, and oppression) rather than just talking about the symptoms and resultant side effects (e.g., the desperate and violent measures that some radicals like Guevara and others have resorted to at many different points in history).
That's true, but wanting to destroy the world with nukes and rebuild from the ashes does make him a **** person to glorify. It's sounds like the Christian god flooding the earth to start anew. That didn't work out as planned.
No one is a saint, but it's better to uphold those who didn't want to blow up the world. Hell, even Hitler had some great ideas like how he established modern Germany's animal protection laws and how he was among the first public figures to champion anti-smoking movements.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
That's true, but wanting to destroy the world with nukes and rebuild from the ashes does make him a **** person to glorify. It's sounds like the Christian god flooding the earth to start anew. That didn't work out as planned.
No one is a saint, but it's better to uphold those who didn't want to blow up the world.

I don't think Guevara is a good pick to portray as a saint or ideal person either. Then again, no one is, in my opinion. It's best to learn lessons in specific areas from people who were good in those areas without glorifying anyone wholesale.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Millions of children are killed each year in late term abortions. Pro abortionists pretend they aren’t really children. If a pregnant women is killed by a drunk driver then the drunk is charged with (2) vehicular homicides. This tragedy is considered differently due to months of age.
Isn’t late term abortion the most medically necessary of all abortions?
Like there are various ailments that don’t show up until the third trimester (due to fetal development.)
So a doctor would see that and say, yeah maybe abort or else your baby will suffer horribly after birth and likely die soon afterwards anyway.
I trust medical professionals to be able to recognise such instances due to their specific training and knowledge.
Not so much politicians and law makers who don’t know Jack about basic medicine, tbh.

As for society charging for manslaughter if a heavily pregnant woman is killed unlawfully.
I think that has to do with the fact that society as a whole assumes that if in the third trimester the pregnant person in question hasn’t elected for abortion (assuming that choice is legal) then it’s highly likely that the fetus was chosen to be birthed. Meaning it is at that stage, legally speaking, a potential life. Barring horrific medical conditions, of course.
 
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