Telford UK Sex Abuse and no word from #metoo

[Curious George]

First I'd request that you not put words in my mouth, as always, I'm happy to clarify my positions if you ask. That said...

I put no words in your mouth.

I am upset at the media, but IMO, the media is a mirror, largely providing what the people want. Next, yes I wish people in general were better informed, that would make for better societies. But in this case I'm far more concerned by those who are, IMO, misguided activists. It strikes me that SJWs are not helping. They are guided by a simplistic idea that leads to more injustice, not more justice.

That is an interesting idea( it would have been a much better title). How does it lead to more injustice?

 

[Srivijaya]

Its widely understood that among lesser privileged women and in many non-western cultures, abuse of women is widespread and blatant upto sex slavery.

Economics lies at the heart of the Telford cases too, which is just too bothersome for many to discuss.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Since always, as 90% of it is either attention whoring or virtue signalling(or both)

"A man looked at my chest on the bus! I should be able to wear low cut shirts without having to deal with these male chauvinistic rapists! #metoo #downwithmen #toxicmasculinity"

I'll take strawmen for $500, thanks, Alex

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

First I'd request that you not put words in my mouth, as always, I'm happy to clarify my positions if you ask. That said...

I am upset at the media, but IMO, the media is a mirror, largely providing what the people want. Next, yes I wish people in general were better informed, that would make for better societies. But in this case I'm far more concerned by those who are, IMO, misguided activists. It strikes me that SJWs are not helping. They are guided by a simplistic idea that leads to more injustice, not more justice.

If you have a problem with #metoo, that's fine, and we can discuss it. But why are you dragging this Telford business into it, exactly?

In your mind, what do you think #metoo hashtaggers should be doing that they aren't doing?

If your problem is with media reporting, well, that's fine too, but that's hardly the "SJWs'" fault, is it?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I'll take strawmen for $500, thanks, Alex

Not sure that term means what you think it means.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Not sure that term means what you think it means.

Yeah, pretty sure it does.

 

[icehorse]

That is an interesting idea( it would have been a much better title). How does it lead to more injustice?

Well I took a stab at explaining this in post #18, let me take another whack at it:

(My claim was the SJWs simplistic take does more injustice than justice). Well first off let me list a few SJW causes and you can tell me if you agree if any of them qualify. Then at least we can share a common starting point. I'd say that the following are SJW causes:

- BLM
- hate speech
- the gender pay gap
- the use of "intersectionality" to drive policy
- the right to be shielded from offense
- fighting "Islamophobia"
- fighting "micro-aggressions"
- fighting for "safe spaces"

Would you agree that any of the above are SJW causes?

 

[icehorse]

If you have a problem with #metoo, that's fine, and we can discuss it. But why are you dragging this Telford business into it, exactly?

In your mind, what do you think #metoo hashtaggers should be doing that they aren't doing?

If your problem is with media reporting, well, that's fine too, but that's hardly the "SJWs'" fault, is it?

Well we could have a semantic issue here. I'd say that #metoo is an example of a SJW cause. I used it because it strikes me that in this moment it's a well known SJW cause that lots of people would be easily able to relate to.

Assuming you're okay with that logic so far, then I'd say that by all rights, the #metoo folks ought to be directing as least as much energy to things like "grooming" and FGM as they are to the Harvey Weinsteins of the world. Again, this is no defense of the despicable Weinstein, it's more a matter of putting activist energy where it can do the most good. And it's an example of a broader issue, that of giving passes to the behaviors of those who are deemed to be "oppressed".

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Well I took a stab at explaining this in post #18, let me take another whack at it:

(My claim was the SJWs simplistic take does more injustice than justice). Well first off let me list a few SJW causes and you can tell me if you agree if any of them qualify. Then at least we can share a common starting point. I'd say that the following are SJW causes:

- BLM
- hate speech
- the gender pay gap
- the use of "intersectionality" to drive policy
- the right to be shielded from offense
- fighting "Islamophobia"
- fighting "micro-aggressions"
- fighting for "safe spaces"

Would you agree that any of the above are SJW causes?

Do you think anyone who supports or opposes any one of those things supports or opposes all of them?

Respectfully, your idea of "SJWs" seems kind of stereotypical.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Well we could have a semantic issue here. I'd say that #metoo is an example of a SJW cause. I used it because it strikes me that in this moment it's a well known SJW cause that lots of people would be easily able to relate to.

Assuming you're okay with that logic so far, then I'd say that by all rights, the #metoo folks ought to be directing as least as much energy to things like "grooming" and FGM as they are to the Harvey Weinsteins of the world. Again, this is no defense of the despicable Weinstein, it's more a matter of putting activist energy where it can do the most good. And it's an example of a broader issue, that of giving passes to the behaviors of those who are deemed to be "oppressed".

And this is basically the perfect world fallacy. Like I said earlier, just because the Leukemia foundation doesn't battle heart disease doesn't mean they're OK with it. Who are these "SJWs" "giving passes" to anything? Specifically?

 

[Curious George]

Well I took a stab at explaining this in post #18, let me take another whack at it:

(My claim was the SJWs simplistic take does more injustice than justice). Well first off let me list a few SJW causes and you can tell me if you agree if any of them qualify. Then at least we can share a common starting point. I'd say that the following are SJW causes:

- BLM
- hate speech
- the gender pay gap
- the use of "intersectionality" to drive policy
- the right to be shielded from offense
- fighting "Islamophobia"
- fighting "micro-aggressions"
- fighting for "safe spaces"

Would you agree that any of the above are SJW causes?

Sure.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Yeah, pretty sure it does.

Well, if that is the case your initial reply to me loses much of it's context, as I misrepresented no arguments or positions, nor did I seek out and argue against any such misrepresentations.

So the next question then becomes, what are you on about then?

 

[Augustus]

Again, we can predict whether Harvey Weinstein or a massive grooming ring is gonna get more press.

We can predict that a sex scandal involving Hollywood bigwigs, famous actresses and the sordid and hypocritical world of international celebrities will get more press than crimes that occurred among the working class in a small town in an unfashionable part of England?

I'd say there is a fair chance...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Well, if that is the case your initial reply to me loses much of it's context, as I misrepresented no arguments or positions, nor did I seek out and argue against any such misrepresentations.

So the next question then becomes, what are you on about then?

You thoroughly misrepresented arguments, positions and prevalence. That's what I'm on about.

 

[icehorse]

Do you think anyone who supports or opposes any one of those things supports or opposes all of them?

Respectfully, your idea of "SJWs" seems kind of stereotypical.

If you reread the OP, you'll see that I'm open for a different label for people who tend to believe most of the things I listed. You'll also see that I predicted I'd get pushback for "generalizing", and it appears I was prophetic.

It doesn't matter if the Venn diagram isn't perfect. What matters is that there is a collection of bad ideas out there that are somewhat popular, and that there are a large group of people who are putting forth these ideas. We talk about Dems and Republicans and liberals and conservatives, and we know that they are not perfect labels. I would content that SJW is a better than average label to apply to folks who believe a more than a few of the ideas I listed above.

 

[icehorse]

We can predict that a sex scandal involving Hollywood bigwigs, famous actresses and the sordid and hypocritical world of international celebrities will get more press than crimes that occurred among the working class in a small town in an unfashionable part of England?

I'd say there is a fair chance...

Am I to infer that that's okay by you?

 

[SomeRandom]

Well is it a metoo thing? I mean the movement might be separated from this issue in particular, unless victims used the hashtag and were ignored?
That said, yeah it would be nice to see such things condemned just as loudly as other similar issues by proponents of social justice.
I've rather lost my indignation of the SJW thing or whatever label we're going with these days. But I don't really see the metoo hashtag thing as a particularly good movement. Possessing noble intentions, sure. I dunno, I haven't really followed it too closely. There were annoying hangers on from what I can remember.

 

[icehorse]

Don't criticise the leukemia foundation for not doing enough about heart disease.

As I said in the OP, much of my criticism is of the media. Presumably they ought to report on these issues more in keeping with their impact on society.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If you reread the OP, you'll see that I'm open for a different label for people who tend to believe most of the things I listed. You'll also see that I predicted I'd get pushback for "generalizing", and it appears I was prophetic.

It doesn't matter if the Venn diagram isn't perfect. What matters is that there is a collection of bad ideas out there that are somewhat popular, and that there are a large group of people who are putting forth these ideas. We talk about Dems and Republicans and liberals and conservatives, and we know that they are not perfect labels. I would content that SJW is a better than average label to apply to folks who believe a more than a few of the ideas I listed above.

I don't understand how you arrive at the conclusion that these are "bad ideas", let alone to how that relates to the issue in the title?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As I said in the OP, much of my criticism is of the media. Presumably they ought to report on these issues more in keeping with their impact on society.

Great, so why are you complaining about SJWs?