Tell me the difference between these two.

[Gehennaite]

Hell doesn't make any logical sense anyways. At best, God could be allowed to temporarily or permanently ostracize one from existence; perhaps a purgatory of nothingness.

Anything more extreme than that and you are dabbling in sadism.

 

[FearGod]

Hell doesn't make any logical sense anyways. At best, God could be allowed to temporarily or permanently ostracize one from existence; perhaps a purgatory of nothingness.

Anything more extreme than that and you are dabbling in sadism.

It depends how bad deeds affect you, God loves the innocent and hates the arrogant.

Imagine that you are a father and your lovely daughter were attacked by a maniac rapist while sleeping in peace in her bedroom.

Will you forgive him if he repented and asked for your forgiveness after raping and killing your lovely daughter, God will forgive him if in a case that he repented with sincerity.

Now what if the rapist doesn't repent and was rude and arrogant,will you forgive him or you'll be glad to see him tortured for his awful act, what if you got the ability to let him alive again and torture him once again for his bad deeds.

Not all people will have the same punishment but according to their deeds.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

It depends how bad deeds affect you, God loves the innocent and hates the arrogant.

Imagine that you are a father and your lovely daughter were attacked by a maniac rapist while sleeping in peace in her bedroom.

Will you forgive him if he repented and asked for your forgiveness after raping and killing your lovely daughter, God will forgive him if in a case that he repented with sincerity.

Now what if the rapist doesn't repent and was rude and arrogant,will you forgive him or you'll be glad to see him tortured for his awful act, what if you got the ability to let him alive again and torture him once again for his bad deeds.

Not all people will have the same punishment but according to their deeds.

Tortured for how long? Because in this case, the rapist is also your son that you love very much, or so believers are led to think.

 

[FearGod]

Tortured for how long? Because in this case, the rapist is also your son that you love very much, or so believers are led to think.

God doesn't act according to racism, all are treated according to their deeds.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

God doesn't act according to racism, all are treated according to their deeds.

And how many deeds justify infinite torture? I understand Muslims don't always believe in an infinite hell (for all) so take it as a hypothetical.

What would make God condone eternal torture without intervention? And why would God not instead end their existence permanently?

 

[FearGod]

And how many deeds justify infinite torture? I understand Muslims don't always believe in an infinite hell (for all) so take it as a hypothetical.

What would make God condone eternal torture without intervention? And why would God not instead end their existence permanently?

How to know the unknown ?

What will prevent God from punishing the bad doers for eternity,seeing it as rational or irrational wouldn't change anything.

I wonder that some verses say that the disbelievers will deny the eternal punishment and think of it as a lie.

But today you do not hold for one another [the power of] benefit or harm, and We will say to those who wronged, "Taste the punishment of the Fire, which you used to deny." (34:42)

The quran was written before 1400 years ago and some verses say that God promised that on end of time that the Jews will be gathered in Palestine and he will let them have the control and the power over this world for a given time, so how can i deny this fact while i can see it with my own eyes, should i fool myself and think of it as just coincidence and a lucky verses.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

• Obey and worship me, God, or burn in hell.
• People have free will. They can choose to obey God's commands, or not. God does not send people to hell, they send themselves.

• Obey and worship me, Josef Stalin, or freeze in Gulag.
• People have free will. They can could choose to obey Stalin's commands, or not. Stalin does not send people to Gulags, they send themselves there by disobeying him.

• "But wait, the difference is that God is all knowing and perfect!"

• "Yes, but you see comrade, Father Stalin is also all knowing and perfect. I know this because this book written by the People's Ministry of Truth says so."

• "That's absurd! Stalin is very clearly imperfect, I'd even go so far as to call him EVIL!"

• "You must open up your heart to our glorious leader, only then can you truly see his love. Father Stalin cannot be evil since he is goodness personified. You must have faith in him."
  

Yeah! Another carefully considered and highly nuanced 'let's bash the bible' thread.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

God isn't a human being.

It is like comparing a human to ants

Which too is completely possible and can be done by everyone.

I don't think so, followers of Stalin were as bad as he was , but followers of prophets were as good as he was.


God asked us to do good deeds and to help people in need

Why single out only those deeds? There have been other things that God asked us.

What of these:

Spoiler: What of these?

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

We don't know , it returns to him, he may forgives ,he may punishes

Fair enough

Why there is life sentence, it looks to me as eternal punishment ?
What if the person in the prison never dies, will that change punishment of life sentence ?

Life sentences are for those who probably will remain untrusted for as long as they shall further live.

In the case that they never die, there may be release when the criminal is felt to be OK to once again come into society.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yeah! Another carefully considered and highly nuanced 'let's bash the bible' thread.

Who doesn't love'em?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Yeah! Another carefully considered and highly nuanced 'let's bash the bible' thread.

These theists aren't going to persecute themselves now, are they!?!

 

[FearGod]

Which too is completely possible and can be done by everyone.

How is it possible to compare human to ants ?
Do you feel sad to squash an ant with your feet.

Why single out only those deeds? There have been other things that God asked us.

What of these:

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'"

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.

Fighting to defend Islam and the community,i can see no problem with it,as God make it clear that transgression isn't permitted.

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.(2:190)

Life sentences are for those who probably will remain untrusted for as long as they shall further live.

In the case that they never die, there may be release when the criminal is felt to be OK to once again come into society.

I think it is useless to think about punishment while denying it.

Because if one doesn't accept Islam then he denies the punishment of afterlife.

If punishment was true then what to do.

IOW,if you think of it as irrational that doesn't mean it can't be true.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

How is it possible to compare human to ants ?
Do you feel sad to squash an ant with your feet.

Like so; Ants are smaller than humans. Humans only have two legs while ants have six. Relative to size, ants can lift more than humans. etc

Anything can be compared to another thing as long as there is enough information to do so. We have enough information about some actions God has done, and enough information about some actions Stalin has done, to compare both.

I think it is useless to think about punishment while denying it.

Because if one doesn't accept Islam then he denies the punishment of afterlife.

If punishment was true then what to do.

IOW,if you think of it as irrational that doesn't mean it can't be true.

I agree, but it does bring questions about God if there is an irrational existence of something.

 

[Thief]

How about?...God is trying to save us from ourselves.
and the rules (sometimes poorly spoken by Man).....help us to be the spirit we need to be, that we can HAVE continuance and more life.

I can't help but notice....give a man enough authority and his brains corrupt.

I suspect the will of God is simply overplayed by men having agendas.
Sorting through the dogma and insistence can be difficult.

I say.....do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
You've never needed anything else....or more.

 

[Koldo]

Yeah! Another carefully considered and highly nuanced 'let's bash the bible' thread.

Another sarcastic post from Jayhawker Soule in a thread like this.
If people don't keep creating topics like this, you will lose your hobby.

 

[FearGod]

Like so; Ants are smaller than humans. Humans only have two legs while ants have six. Relative to size, ants can lift more than humans. etc

But that doesn't answer the question about whether if you'll feel sad or not by squashing an ant.

Anything can be compared to another thing as long as there is enough information to do so. We have enough information about some actions God has done, and enough information about some actions Stalin has done, to compare both.

God created the universe, how to compare such information with Stalin

I agree, but it does bring questions about God if there is an irrational existence of something.

Everything in this universe looks irrational and anything can be expected.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

But that doesn't answer the question about whether if you'll feel sad or not by squashing an ant.

I would not.

God created the universe, how to compare such information with Stalin

That is irrelevant, it's not part of what the equation of what is being compared.

Everything in this universe looks irrational and anything can be expected.

Not entirely. If it were, why do we prepare for likely things and not unlikely, irrational things? If it has been warm all week, I am going to expect it to be the same tomorrow, but if everything were irrational I would prepare for freezing cold weather.

 

[FearGod]

I would not.

Why would God

That is irrelevant, it's not part of what the equation of what is being compared.

It is relevant.

God owns the universe, Stalin owned nothing.
God can never be compared to us, we are nothing.

Imagine that you created something that you owned, so who i am to ask you how to treat what you created and owned.

Not entirely. If it were, why do we prepare for likely things and not unlikely, irrational things? If it has been warm all week, I am going to expect it to be the same tomorrow, but if everything were irrational I would prepare for freezing cold weather.

I am talking about the universe and life and not those things that we observe and feel.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why would God

He doesn't have to, but if he didn't he'd certainly not be a loving or caring God by definition.

It is relevant.

God owns the universe, Stalin owned nothing.
God can never be compared to us, we are nothing.

Imagine that you created something that you owned, so who i am to ask you how to treat what you created and owned.

Stalin practically owned Russia.

I am not asking God how he treats his creation - only pointing out that the way he does treat it contradicts the labels of mercilessness and benevolence, and that his treatment does reflect that of Stalin's treatment, only enlarged.

 

[FearGod]

He doesn't have to, but if he didn't he'd certainly not be a loving or caring God by definition.

If you squash an ant,then you aren't a loving human

Stalin practically owned Russia.

People had let him to own Russia, it is the teaching of Islam to say "no" for the oppressor.

It started with a slave who's name was Bilal, he didn't obey his master orders,he was freed and became the first crier for prayer.

[youtube]UWK9UI5vNao[/youtube]
The story of Bilal bin Rabah, first man who call to Prayers in Islam (Azan)992 - YouTube

I am not asking God how he treats his creation - only pointing out that the way he does treat it contradicts the labels of mercilessness and benevolence, and that his treatment does reflect that of Stalin's treatment, only enlarged.

The image of a loving God doesn't exist in Islam.

God is merciful and at the same time can eradicate a whole nation.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If you squash an ant,then you aren't a loving human



People had let him to own Russia, it is the teaching of Islam to say "no" for the oppressor.

It started with a slave who's name was Bilal, he didn't obey his master orders,he was freed and became the first crier for prayer.

[youtube]UWK9UI5vNao[/youtube]
The story of Bilal bin Rabah, first man who call to Prayers in Islam (Azan)992 - YouTube



The image of a loving God doesn't exist in Islam.

God is merciful and at the same time can eradicate a whole nation.

Well, I suppose if the image of a loving God doesn't exist in Islam, then my entire point is flushed.