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Tell me what you believe and why

Katieb123

New Member
So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

Welcome to RF Katieb,

I’ve been a Baha’i for nearly 30 years but grew up as a Christian. I went through a period of search for about 5 years where I explored my Christian roots, Buddhism, Hinduism and atheism before becoming a Baha’i. During the years of search I lived for over 2 years in relative isolation meditating and contemplating the meaning of life.

Ironically I wasn’t at all interested in religion in my teens being much more interested in music, sport, studies and friends. I did OK at school which led me into the study of medicine.

Being on RF has been a great place to learn about different Faiths. I’ve learnt a great deal from many people here. Hope you find what you are looking for.:)
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I used to be fed up trying to think about "which religion is correct".

Then I came across Baha'i and I was impressed by the message I was understanding: "God has many messengers, and many religions are pretty much truth. All pointing to some higher power."
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Katie, you ask "What evidence do you have"
but religion is not based upon evidence, it is based upon faith.
Religion DOES have a form of evidence - that of proving something for yourself.
And what evidence there might be for the bible is dismissed by skeptics, in a
rather unscientific way.

But Christianity must be seen only through the lens of the New Testament. What
you see today in mainstream religion connects with this story, but goes off on its
own tangent - without authority and love for the simplicity of this story.

Read the four Gospels - that is the foundation of it all, the story of Jesus. And in
reading accounts in the Old Testament view it through the lens of the Gospels
as most of the authors also spoke of the coming Messiah and the end of the
Old Covenant (Old Testament.)
 

RoaringSilence

Active Member
i found sikhism / krishna to be on point and beyond in my personal struggle/ quest . if you have the patience please watch this video with English subtitles .. there are some words that you might not understand please ask if u need help on those.
I also love jesus for how he drowned in the love of his father and taught what is forgiveness in its true essence and i keep myself open to learning from all sources . the reason for my conclusion was REINCARNATION , since YOLO = Heven /hell eternity is false. i don't believe in an angry / jealous god .Since sikhism defines god as nirvair ( free from hate )





Scientific Proof of reincarnation :
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

I can understand where you're getting at with the universe. It is pretty big literally and symbolically (if that's the right word); so, it's natural to have questions and concerns. People are really nice here and if they don't seem to be, it's all in good intent.

Technically, I am an atheist. I don't care for the commonly hijacked term; but, simply, I do not believe gods or deities exist. That's pretty much it. I wasn't raised religious and was only christian for four years of my life. I'm very observant and empathetic in nature; and, understanding the mind, body, and things of that nature (due to illness, mostly), I came to a conclusion I just don't know. In other words, briefly, I have seizures. In seizures, to one extent or another, you have a small blurt of time missing; shift of consciousness, I guess. It happens spontaneously. Then, I thought, life is spontaneous. I don't know when I will have a seizure. I don't know when I die. I've had seizures 20 some odd years of my life and I'm accepting it.

So, accepting seizures and life with them helped me understand what I can't control and know. Of course, in many people that's a very hard thing. I did shift with different concepts of god that made sense; though, i wouldn't define "it" (or would it be an It) as a higher power or any relationship in the world.

I've had a few experiences such as my grandmother saving me when she passed and surgeries. A lot of reflection helped me put events together I can't explain and those I can.

Best thing I can think is maybe to write down your values and goals? Keep a journal. Religion or finding a meaning comes with time. A lot of people don't have it overnight. That and some of us aren't very traditional in our insight and definition of spirituality. So, it's a learning curve.

Welcome.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
...I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is...
It may help to look at the sticky posts at the top of our religion Dir areas. They quickly summarize some well known attributes of the religions. The quicker you can organize them the easier it will be to think about them.

Many people don't like to be called religious, because the term has shifted a little for some. They tend to think by saying they have a religion that you are equating their faith and their ideas with everyone else's or that you are saying all paths are the same. That is not actually what the word religion is for. The religions are so different that its hard to classify them.

The minimal definition of religion is regular behavior. For example if you go to church every Sunday that is regular behavior, and so it is religion. Religious behavior can include lots of ideas and beliefs and feelings; but its mainly based on regular behavior as words can't always describe everything internal to outsiders of a religion. Sikhs carry swords. Muslims pray 5 times a day. Yogis do those complicated stretches. Couch potatoes never go out. You don't have to know why to identify their religion. The regular activities and everything associated with them is what we usually mean when we say 'Religion'. Within those religions there are beliefs and many other things from philosophical systems to food recipes. A religion may not have theology in it or could be very interested in spices or may focus on aliens. Its understood by outsiders by its behaviors, and these are why its called a religion.

Which brings me to your OP (opening post). Religions are described different ways. That is what is so complicated. They also don't undress easily. :p You can't say "Show me what you've got." They don't. Also, sometimes a religion is only passed down through families, and so you just have to be a child who grows up in it.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I was raised in religion and then tried other religions which did no more than heavily weigh and burden me down to the point that I simply continued to cry out to God to show me His truth and will. Then I came to know the love, peace, and freedom in Jesus and realized the difference between practicing a religion or living in a relationship with the God who created heaven and earth.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.
Welcome to the forum. I am a Hindu with Buddhist influences. I am from India, though I spent about 10 years in USA for higher studies. I am strongly inspired by the writings in Gita, by the works of Buddha and by the life of Gandhi. I had had spontaneous as well as meditative experiences from quite an early age that remains the source of my spiritual growth, though I have sharpened that insight with reading as well. I believe in a transpersonal ultimate root of existence, knowledge and consciousness which Hindus often call the Brahman. I believe the world and ourselves to be a partial manifestation of this root entity. That's my belief in brief. I am also a practicing scientist.

Hope you enjoy your stay here.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
First, welcome to RF.

What do you believe?... how you got to your conclusion.

I believe in Avatar Meher Baba. I also believe that belief or lack thereof does not mean much - actions matter. I also believe that every viewpoint is partially true and partially false - see the
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
To the second question - how I got to my current understanding. I can't answer that question in a short post because it was a longish process with a lot of reading, meeting people and self-reflection. But here are a few notes that illustrate part of what I explored.

Just one part of one example: I realized after a time that either the universe was random and without ultimate meaning or it had ultimate meaning. For it to have ultimate meaning, the problem of why people suffer had to be addressed. The only answer that satisfied me personally was that reincarnation and karma had to be true and I found an echo of karma in the Biblical "what you sow, so shall you reap".

For another part of the puzzle, I knew science is the lens through which we know how the world operates. So any spiritual belief I would adopt had to accept the findings of science including evolution.

This chart I found satisfying, not because it's an exact evolutionary tree, but because it captures the evolution of consciousness in a general way that to me represents what I was looking for

creation.png
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Welcome to the forum. Your situation is a bit particular. Do what you are best comfortable with. Eastern relegions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Daoism with which I am not very familiar) do not mind atheism. I am perfectly satisfied being a believer of 'non-duality' ('Advaita' Hinduism) and a strong atheist. That floats my boat. Hindu scriptures (Gita, Upanishads) and Buddha guide me.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

I am not a Christian, I am a Jew. I do not think that other people need to be Jews. If there is anything I'd like to spread, it is ethical monotheism. In otherwords, the belief in God and the need to be a good person.

God is the source of the universe, and he is utterly beyond our ability to know. How can the finite fathom the infinite? However, he has seen fit to make us aware of him, and made known that he cares how we behave towards one another. Everything else is just detail. If you get this right, you have the main idea. Love your neighbor as yourself.

You've specifically asked about Christianity, so I will answer. I have great respect for the many Christians who actually live their faith, because they believe in God and are good people. However, I think their theology can sometimes become an obstacle. I think their monotheism is mucked up by Trinitarianism. And they emphasize belief over action, especially Protestants.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
What do you believe?

Most people think of God in two ways. These two ways are based on philosophical materialism also known as realism. With philosophical materialism as a belief system, either God is an imaginary friend or someone you would be able to meet in reality. People then argue if God is an imaginary friend then he is irrelevant since he isn’t real. And if God is a person, introduce me to him and have him demonstrate his powers. So if God can’t be experienced in reality as a person, then God doesn’t exist.

This way of looking at God as an object in reality, or a figment of the imagination, requires the acceptance of the assumption philosophical materialism as an absolute fact. The thing is science has shown philosophical materialism is a delusional fantasy and just another belief system or dogma. Contrary to the chagrin of the philosophical materialists, we live in a spiritual Universe where consciousness exists and participates in changing reality through observation. google "debunks materialism" for some of the evidence on ways of interpreting the evidence.

Since philosophical materialism is a fairy tale, we need a more sophisticated way of looking at and understanding the nature of God. I've been leaning toward Apophatic theology lately:

Apophatic theology - Wikipedia

With this way of thinking, God is not an object person to experience in reality. God is manifested in the way the Holy Trinity is interpreted. With this way of thinking about God, God is perfect, complete, desiring nothing, lacking nothing, and needing nothing. God is absolute perfection and unity and beyond distinctions created through the use of language. This is a very different way of thinking about God than as an imaginary friend or someone you meet in person. Since God is absolute unity, complete, and perfect God cannot be a creature with limitations as described in the OP.

With the Apophatic way of thinking, "the essence of God is completely unknowable; mankind can know God only through His energies". So we can only know God through our experiences as an indirect way of seeing fragments or glimpses of the greatness that is God's infinite perfection.

"Apophatic theology, also known as negative theology,[1] is a form of theological thinking and religious practice which attempts to approach God, the Divine, by negation, to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God"

"Dionysius describes the kataphatic or affirmative way to the divine as the "way of speech": that we can come to some understanding of the Transcendent by attributing all the perfections of the created order to God as its source. In this sense, we can say "God is Love", "God is Beauty", "God is Good". The apophatic or negative way stresses God's absolute transcendence and unknowability in such a way that we cannot say anything about the divine essence because God is so totally beyond being. The dual concept of the immanence and transcendence of God can help us to understand the simultaneous truth of both "ways" to God: at the same time as God is immanent, God is also transcendent. At the same time as God is knowable, God is also unknowable. God cannot be thought of as one or the other only"

"[t]hat which is infinite is known only to itself. This it is which gives some notion of God, while yet beyond all our conceptions – our very incapacity of fully grasping Him affords us the idea of what He really is. He is presented to our minds in His transcendent greatness, as at once known and unknown.[49]"

Most philosophical materialists believe there is no purpose to the Universe. Most philosophical materialists believe there is no purpose to evolution. With this way of thinking the philosophical materialists think the Universe is nothing but meaningless patterns of energy with no one pattern of energy having more meaning than any other. For the philosophical materialists evolution has no purpose. Evolution is the result of essentially random events with no outside organizing agent or influence. For the philosophical materialists consciousness doesn't really exist. Each of us is just a machine carrying out the laws of physics. And consciousness is just a delusional side effect of activity of the brain. And many philosophical materialists are researching the problem of consciousness so to finally prove consciousness does not exist.

However, in contrast to the way the philosophical materialists think about reality, this idea that God is both immanence and transcendence is fascinating to appreciate. Since God is absolute perfection and complete, the Universe was not created out of need and desire but an abundance flowing out of God. This abundance has no where else to go but to flow back to the absolute unity that is God.

We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. We are made of the very stuff we are experiencing. The purpose of Universe is to support evolution. The purpose of evolution is to create ever greater forms of consciousness capable of appreciating the unity that is God. We are all drawn to the unity that is God. We experience slivers of God's infinite beauty and perfection when we experience greatness in our appreciation of beauty and performance in ourselves and others. In the end, all the energy of the Universe conscious and unconscious, all flows back to experience unity with the infinite perfection that is God completing a kind of circuit of reality.

The trinity can be defined as three aspects. Out of the nameless void God spoke and created light and all the forms. All forms are the words of God. The way nature behaves in patterns represented by mathematics are also the words of God. The second aspect of the trinity is the idea God is the movement of energy through all the forms. The power of God compels you. There are two principles in the Universe. One principle towards separation away from God. And another principle of energy flowing to organization, order, and unity with God. And the third aspect of the trinity is conscious awareness of the other two aspects of the trinity along with two principles of behavior. With this interpretation of the trinity we have immanence and transcendence.

As I said experiencing God's immanence and transcendence is fascinating to appreciate. Although nature behaves in patterns represented by mathematics, there is also divergence. The wave-like nature of reality means everything is connected to everything else like a giant blob of jello. Data outliers and experimental errors abound. Rogue waves of energy converge on every level of reality bubbling up creating unimaginable possibilities in nature. Nature is both order and chaos manifesting itself in a dance of jello.

And through the dance of jello, conscious observers change the way reality is realized. The Universe may operate according to certain patterns of behaviors represented with the language of mathematics but consciousness is also ripping through he Universe creating paths of unimaginable possibilities. All for the purpose of allowing consciousness to appreciate bigger pieces of the greatness that is God's perfection and unity with everything.

This way of thinking about God comes from this video:


I've watched this video at least 10 times maybe more. Everything there are little nuggets of gold I keep finding. I really like this way of thinking about God. It seems to best fit the current thinking of our times. God is not a form or in a form to be experience. A form would imply limitations. God is perfect and complete without any limitations.

Anything that gives us joy and enthusiasm by making us feel closer to God's perfection and wholeness that is God is our divine purpose. And of course not at the expense of other people's enthusiasm.
 
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dfnj

Well-Known Member
I also like this video. Life is a sequence of death and rebirth each time transforming us into a new form of consciousness butterfly.

 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Well, maybe something of a neo-platonist, and someone who is trying to maybe find something in his irish roots that can be called spiritual. I think in the so-called 'fairy faith' of the celts, divinity was said to be found in every particle of nature, and so they were said by some scholars to have 'thousands of little gods.' Yesterday a took a hike with 3 acorns in my hand and then had a weird dream. Anyway, I don't really believe in proselyting and personally think that all cultures and peoples are equal when measured against the divine, ultimately you should find whatever path works best for you and I hope you feel better soon.
 

Shadow Link

Active Member
What do you believe?
I believe a person should start with the most profound question that they have and just dive into it. Find all you can on that subject. It's way easier nowadays to achieve this then when most of us were 18. The works, views, and perspectives, from the people that you come to respect the most from history should lead you further back to others that they themselves had learned from. Example: C.H. Spurgeon to Dr. John Owen, Albert Einstein to Baruch de Spinoza, Michael Jackson to James Brown, etc.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.
I’m an Abrahamic liberal. Basically I believe in God because I’m hard wired to.
That being said I believe it would go against a just God to deprive anyone who lives a virtuous life of the fruits of the afterlife, so to me what you believe is not so important, rather it is of critical importance that you lead a virtuous life.

Kind regards :)
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
I used to be a Christian of the 'saved' variety as a child. However, during my teenage years the doubts about the faith soon became overwhelming and I lost it by the time I married at the age of 19. I am 70 next year and haven't missed it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.
IMO, this viewpoint, applied consistently, leads to atheism.

This is because it suggests that those who claim to know the inner workings of the universe are pulling this "knowledge" out of their butts (or are repeating what someone else pulled out of their butts), and apart from that, I'm not sure that there's any reason to believe in any gods.
 
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