Tell me what you believe and why

[TagliatelliMonster]

I want to understand the universe, I truly do.

Don't we all...

I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

I think this is a tough question, because what the word "believes" means to me, doesn't seem quite the same as what it means in religious circles.

In religious terms, I actually don't believe anything. In religious terms, the word "believe" refers to accepting something as true with pretty much absolute certainty. That's a confidence level that I'm not comfortable with - because beliefs can be wrong and indeed often are.

When I use the term "believe", I rather mean something like "seems accurate beyond reasonable doubt" or something - leaving the door open for new evidence to come in which could potentially still raise reasonable doubt.

So, what do I believe (in that latter sense) concerning how the universe works and what it is?
Well, pretty much whatever the latest scientific ideas are on the matter. This is what science does... it tries to come up with answers to such questions. Science is humanity's best attempt at finding answers to such questions. And it does a pretty good job at it.

If science doesn't know, there is no reason at all to think that some priest will know.

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same.

I'm an atheist and don't require any evidence for that position.
The reason I'm atheist is because religion is void of evidence.

When you don't buy into religions, you are an atheist by default.

You don't need to do / believe something to be an atheist.
You rather need to do / believe something to be a theist.

An atheist, is what you are automatically if you don't do or believe the thing you must do or believe to be a theist...

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

That's a bit black and white, wouldn't you say.....

It's not like not having absolute certainty means that therefor one can't differentiate the likely from the non-likely.

Can I prove there is no god? No.
I also can't prove there are no unicorns or easter bunnies. So I guess I'm agnostic about easter bunnies, since I can't tell, and have no way to tell, with absolute certainty that they aren't real.

But surely you wouldn't say that therefor we can't say which is more likely - these bunnies existing or these bunnies not existing, right?


So essentially, what this is about, is the burden of proof.
It's upto those who wish to claim that easter bunnies exist, to come up with rational justification for such claims. If they fail to come up with such justification, that doesn't mean the bunnies do not exist. But it DOES mean that there is no reason to believe that they DO exist.

As a result, for all practical intents and purposes, you can just assume that the bunnies don't exist.

Take for example, undetectable graviton pixies being in control of regulation of the force of gravity. We can't prove that such gravity regulating pixies don't exist. But if we just ignore them (=assume they don't exist and can't control gravity) we can very precisely calculate gravitational effects. We can calculate escape velocities, we can use gravity to slingshot space probes, etc...


The same goes for God. Assuming God(s) to be real or not, doesn't make any shred of difference in the explanation of anything. That's how it goes with entities that have no detectable or measureable manifestation in the real world whatsoever.

And as the saying goes: The undetectable and the non-existant, look very much alike....

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

I hope I gave you some insights in how I think about it.

I'm sorry for whatever you're going through, or went through. It sounds quite impactful from the tone of your post....

Always remember: even during the most viscious of storms, the sun is always shining somewhere.
It might sound unhelpfull, but for some reason, the idea behind that sentence gets me through a lot at times.

 

[ChristineM]

So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

Hi, welcome to RF, sit back and enjoy

So "tell me what you believe"??? In an RF thread, that is asking much. But here goes, i am atheist (and out the other side) i do not only disbelieve a god or gods exist, i know they don't exist. Physically and logically gods are contradictions of reality.

Start at the beginning, our universe started, i put it this way because there are many hypothesis of how if started (i know of 28), all are another mathematically valid or extrapolated from current observations, none even hint that a god did it.

The natural laws of the universe formed soon after. One of those laws is, in a closed system (the universe) energy/mass cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from one to the other.

Every atom in existence today has existed since their formation (to follow how you will need some understanding of the BB process). Every atom will exist when/if the universe ends. Matter is made up of these atoms, over time the matter decays releasing its atoms for other use. In this way we are all made up of dead things, rocks, trees, people etc.

The atoms in my body will go on to be reused elsewhere. On and on and on. They may help create new life and new people. In the far distant future they may help a new sun to shine down on a new planet where new life us evolving.

This belief is based on pure scientific reality that up to a point is observed (obviously we can't see the future). Personally i see reality ax a much more fulfilling existence than 'god made it all with magic, you live, you die and some undefined soul zips up to heaven to be with god, but only if you are of the same belief as me'

 

[Vinayaka]

So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

I'd be curious as to why you feel the need to search. Another perspective on it is to drop the search, and look for signs of a religion calling you. That may be tougher as it involves a keen observation, and the sense of not being duped by proselytisers.

 

[Phaedrus]

What do you believe?

I identify as an atheist.

 

[Darkstorn]

I believe because of these reasons:

God promised to rid the world of evil.

Thor promised to rid the world of ice giants.

Do you see any ice giants around?

 

[Polymath257]

I am an atheist: I do not believe in any deities.

I think the best way to understand the universe is by using the scientific method: look around you, formulate hypotheses, test those hypotheses (try to see when they are false), discard or change those hypotheses that are shown to be wrong.

Depending on how deeply you want to understand the universe, I would suggest learning some math. With that, you can understand the language of physics, then of chemistry, etc. This is a long road, and it takes a lot of work, but the reward is deeper understanding.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

I think Jesus knows all with certainty and can guide your search.

 

[joe1776]

So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

Katie, you seem troubled. I'd like to help but I'm not sure I can. I think you're asking the wrong questions.

My opinions:

If you were born with moral intuition, a conscience, you came fully equipped to live life well and be happy.

Our purpose in this life is to make moral progress, to become kinder human beings. Our brains reward us when we are especially kind to others. We feel good about it. Our brains punish us with guilt when we intentionally harm innocent others.

We humans are selfish but we can be wisely selfish when we realize the selfishness paradox: We serve ourselves best when we act with the welfare of others foremost in our minds.

I don't think it matters at all what you believe about God and religion. Because of our conscience (moral intuition), we humans are making moral progress, like the abolition of slavery and equal rights for women and homosexuals, despite the lack of support for these causes in the sacred texts of religion.

In personal relationships, love unconditionally. This doesn't mean that one must endure dysfunctional relationships. It does mean that they shouldn't end bitterly. "I can't live with you anymore but I will always care for you."

I hope these thoughts help.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

So, hi. My name is Katie, and I’ll spare you my sob story that has brought me to this site for the moment.

I just find myself very frustrated and overwhelmed by how much information on religion there is, to the point where I am nearly in tears at the moment, and often feel like I’m only seeing one side of the argument.

I’ve reached out to so many organizations on sides of the spectrum, with no replies. So hopefully you guys can help me out.

I want to understand the universe, I truly do. I have a lot of questions, but I wanted to start with this: What do you believe?

Are you Christian? Tell me why and what evidence you have. Are you Atheist? Do the same. Anything and everything in between, I want to know how you got to your conclusion.

Please, be gentle though. I truly don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, none of us can know the workings of the universe with absolute certainty.

Thanks, I look forward to reading your responses.

Hey Katie. I'd actually prefer to hear YOUR sob story.

My religious journey is pretty boring (mostly). I grew up, saw in college there must be a reason why there are so many religions. Wrote a non-bestselling book on it. Basically I concluded that every world religion was basically about the founder or founders and what they needed/wanted out of life. Then other stuff happened. I ran off a couple of times, had a couple of depressive episodes. Met someone. And I kept meeting different ppl who all reminded me of this person.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I'm atheist, and for these top-of-mind reasons:

1. Lack of compelling evidence
2. Absolutely no way to independently verify claims made by religious adherents
3. The sheer number of religions all claiming to have found some profound truth, many of them in contention
4. I find the intellectual behavior of religious people to be lacking - their ability to assert things they have no valid basis for is truly astounding. If I were to ever be part of a religion, then it would be because I could state things with a degree of certainty backed by facts and reality itself
5. The above point about intellectual behavior is one reason I have come to the conclusion that religion is not about a "Search for truth," and the modes of thinking it promotes are immature and shallow - I want my practical knowledge-base to be reliable - not subject to my own (or anyone else's) whims of fancy or "interpretation"
6. The evidence I do have at my disposal (reality, the things that go on in our lives, the messiness and, in a way, its simplicity) all point away from the fanciful stories told by religions in my estimation. The stories, when compared to the reality we are able to experience, just don't hold up.

 

[Earthtank]

I used to be fed up trying to think about "which religion is correct".

Then I came across Baha'i and I was impressed by the message I was understanding: "God has many messengers, and many religions are pretty much truth. All pointing to some higher power."

Sorry to get technical here but, seeing how most religions conflict, how can many of them be the truth? By its very definition the truth can ONLY be one, not many.

 

[JJ50]

Sorry to get technical here but, seeing how most religions conflict, how can many of them be the truth? By its very definition the truth can ONLY be one, not many.

The truth is likely to be that they are all human creations.

 

[Jainarayan]

I am Hindu, a devotee of Vishnu especially in his avatar of Krishna, but I pray to other gods and goddesses also. My screen name is not my legal name, but it is a genuine Indian male name, from Sanskrit Jayanārāyana, "Glory to God". I am Italian-American, raised Roman Catholic. I left the church when I was in my 20s. I was always drawn to Hinduism and eastern thought. It aligns perfectly with my views of reality, the universe/multiverse, existence.

 

[Earthtank]

The truth is likely to be that they are all human creations.

I don't exactly agree with that comment. Also, starting off with "The truth is" then immediately contradicting yourself by saying "likely to be" doesn't give me confidence in your position. The truth is its either all the human creation or its not (meaning one is real). Can't be both and can't be "likely". Its one or the other.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Sorry to get technical here but, seeing how most religions conflict, how can many of them be the truth? By its very definition the truth can ONLY be one, not many.

This seems so, however there are four larger problems.

1. Truth changes with context, and this has been proven Mathematically with Godel's Continuum Hypothesis. What he does is prove inductively that in any logical system you cannot prove that the system is consistent. You can have what appears to be a system which explains truth for you, but you cannot using that system prove that it is true. Its truth depends upon finding a larger context, and that context's consistency depends upon a larger context around it.

2. People are not 100% honest. Play Chinese Whispers sometime. Ever catch yourself lying to yourself about something? If not you probably will.

3. People perceive but cannot know. This relates to #1, but it has has been understood for millennia while #1 is a newish Math answer.

4. We simply can't agree even if we share the same words. Any two people disagree on what truth is.

Therefore it is Ok to have different religions which have different perspectives on truth. In fact its necessary and also that they don't attack one another.

 

[Earthtank]

This seems so, however there are four larger problems.

1. Truth changes with context, and this has been proven Mathematically with Godel's Continuum Hypothesis. What he does is prove inductively that in any logical system you cannot prove that the system is consistent. You can have what appears to be a system which explains truth for you, but you cannot using that system prove that it is true. Its truth depends upon finding a larger context, and that context's consistency depends upon a larger context around it.

2. People are not 100% honest. Play Chinese Whispers sometime. Ever catch yourself lying to yourself about something? If not you probably will.

3. People perceive but cannot know. This relates to #1, but it has has been understood for millennia while #1 is a newish Math answer.

4. We simply can't agree even if we share the same words. Any two people disagree on what truth is.

Therefore it is Ok to have different religions which have different perspectives on truth. In fact its necessary and also that they don't attack one another.

"Truth changes with context" i disagree, if the truth changes then 1) it was not the truth 2) the question/context has changed therefore, the answer changed, not the truth.

I have never heard of Godel's Hypothesis (will look it up) but, as i have said before, the truth can only be one. When i say "truth" i am mean something that does NOT change overtime regardless of the context, question or situation. For example, many people used to (some still do) believe the earth is flat, just because many did, or even if the entire world believed the earth is flat, that does not make it the truth. Another example is Obama is America's 44th president, that fact and truth will never change. Trump is America's 45th president, that will truth will also never change. Now, where i agree with you when you say the "Truth changes with context" would be if i said "Obama is America's president" 5 years ago that was true, today its fault. See the difference? Like i said, the "Truth changes with context" only applies when you change the question or statement.

The truth, canNOT and must NOT change over time, regardless of the situation (example of flat earth) otherwise, it was never the truth to begin with.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Sorry to get technical here but, seeing how most religions conflict, how can many of them be the truth? By its very definition the truth can ONLY be one, not many.

Alright. Prove to me God is so basic that all truth about Him can be found in one religion, and point to that religion, and we've got a discussion.

 

[Earthtank]

Alright. Prove to me God is so basic that all truth about Him can be found in one religion, and point to that religion, and we've got a discussion.

Seems you've missed my point entirely.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'll give an example. Person A says, the sky is blue. Person B says, the sky is green. One is correct.

But what if person A says "AT-AT is an angry person", and person B says "AT-AT is a happy person", and both are correct as I have my moments of frustration and my moments of joy?

 

[Brickjectivity]

"Truth changes with context" i disagree, if the truth changes then 1) it was not the truth 2) the question/context has changed therefore, the answer changed, not the truth.

I have never heard of Godel's Hypothesis (will look it up) but, as i have said before, the truth can only be one. When i say "truth" i am mean something that does NOT change overtime regardless of the context, question or situation. For example, many people used to (some still do) believe the earth is flat, just because many did, or even if the entire world believed the earth is flat, that does not make it the truth. Another example is Obama is America's 44th president, that fact and truth will never change. Trump is America's 45th president, that will truth will also never change. Now, where i agree with you when you say the "Truth changes with context" would be if i said "Obama is America's president" 5 years ago that was true, today its fault. See the difference? Like i said, the "Truth changes with context" only applies when you change the question or statement.

The truth, canNOT and must NOT change over time, regardless of the situation (example of flat earth) otherwise, it was never the truth to begin with.

I completely understand what you are saying, but notice that Obama is not the 45th president in China. You change the context and the statement is untrue. That does not make it untrue in America, however if you say Obama is a president in America its true unless you are talking about the 15th century where it is untrue. For the statement to be true it must be in a particular context. This has implications, for all truths have a context.

The truth, canNOT and must NOT change over time, regardless of the situation (example of flat earth) otherwise, it was never the truth to begin with.

That does not in any way guarantee that any two people can or will agree on it or even sense it. The problem with people is that we are all biologically predisposed not to truth but to whatever is convenient, so truth is abstract. Its like a very tiny object or something on our back that we can't quite reach. Convenience often is mutual to the truth, but that doesn't make us truthful beings. Too much truth people do not like and can't see. Its a psychological thing that we believe in truth yet are often not able to accept some things that are real.