KnightOwl
Member
KnightOwl responses bolded
As Pegg pointed out, listening to the whole message (reading the whole Bible) helps a lot in terms of correct interpretation. I understand how taking verses out of context can make them seem confusing, but when you read the whole thing the message becomes abundantly clear. I don't think God has any trouble communicating.
The more I read of the Bible, the more I find irrational, incongruous and unhelpful. I don't ever plan to read the entire Bible front to back though. By the time I finished, I'd have forgotten most of what I read assuming I live that long. I don't get a lot of time to read and I want to read more than just the Bible.
Even if reading the whole thing makes it abundantly clear, what is the point? If I spent most of my lifetime trying to figure out exactly what was being said in Alice in Wonderland I would in the end simply know what Lewis Carroll was trying to convey. That doesn't mean I would agree with it. Same goes for the Bible. The way I see it, it would be committing myself to in depth analysis of dozens of authors who are trying to convey something I've discounted enough already. To put it another way, it would be like going through the classified ads every day looking for the best price I could find on a Yugo. I'm never planning on buying a Yugo, so what sort of accomplishment would I end up with?
Besides, I have people like you to tell me when I'm missing a critical tie in.
He gave the guidance in the Bible. If 2 churches ignore it or misinterpret it, don't seek clarification on it etc, they're the ones doing something wrong, not God.
My point was that these were not lay people. These were clergy dedicated to reading and interpreting the Bible. If they can't agree, what hope is there for the common man who spends 1/3 of his life sleeping, 1/3 working and the other third taking care of personal business, raising kids, etc. etc.? Obviously they can't rely on the clergy... one or both of the parties I mentioned has something wrong.
I'd say He stopped the people from trying to get to Heaven their own way and encouraged them to rely on Him for getting to Heaven. This seems to re-enforce the message in the Bible, not confuse it.
So you don't see the problems associated with interpreting different languages as a contributing factor in confusing the message of the Bible? It was written in ancient Hebrew which I don't believe anyone speaks anymore and very few read, and Greek which is not exactly the worlds most well known language. Given how often new translations come out even from these languages into English, it is clear that people are struggling to get the message. If I were a powerful God interested in conveying my message clearly, I would not sit by while people misconstrued my message. I would set people straight. "Hey, I didn't mean that!! Here's what I meant." Human communication is fallible but that from a superior being should not be... obvious conclusion... The Bible is a human communication.
That's only true if you discount the process of supernatural illumination, which doesn't discriminate based on IQ.
I've never heard that term but can guess at its meaning. The thing is, I don't think if God were really interested in testing us, he would have made so many of us incapable of understanding his complete message. In fact, the whole idea of making us and then testing us seems absurd to me. What is the point. He should already know what we are going to do so there is not test really, anymore than I watch The Wizard of Oz to see what's going to happen to Dorothy. I know... all it is when I watch is entertainment. And according to what I have read in the Bible, it is clear they're saying God DOES know what is going to happen. In Revelation there is talk about the visions which are claimed to be prophecy i.e. it will happen... where there are people who are punished and tortured for not accepting Christ as their saviour....
If God doesn't know what's going to happen, then Revelation is false prophecy or at least potentially false prophecy. If God does know what is going to happen, then there is not test... just entertainment.
That's a nice message, but won't help a person develop a personal relationship with God. Maximising good deeds and minimising bad deeds won't get a person into Heaven. Perhaps your message will guide people to become what you define as "better" people, but can you be sure that the purpose of the Bible is to guide people to become what you define as "better" people. The Bible says that David was "better" than Saul because David loved God. Your message of try to do good and try not to harm doesn't encourage loving God at all.
You're right, my message wouldn't get a person into heaven because I wouldn't have a heaven. Heaven would be on earth. There would be no dying and suffering. The earth would expand to accommodate the number of people as people had babies. Childbirth wouldn't feel like one were passing a basketball through a small opening. People would only experience joy, fulfillment, love and other positive feelings. They wouldn't be threatened with the fires of hell for enjoying sex with someone of the same sex or for speaking badly of me. They wouldn't conceive of evil because their brains would be hardwired to not do evil. They would still have free will, but it wouldn't occur to them to hurt other people. I wouldn't create people with the inability to feel empathy. I wouldn't create people who got off on hurting others. I wouldn't care if they loved me because that would be such an immature emotion for an elevated being like myself.
He also made a way out for you. He also gave you a choice. You're not going to be punished for being deceived, you (and everyone else on earth) are going to be punished for the things you've done (and thought, and said) that God considers "wrong," unless you can somehow "get right" with God.
Well, if you're right, then I'll just have to see what he has to say when that time comes. I'm not holding by breath though.
