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Terrorist Win in Fight over Free Speech

Fluffy

A fool
I am now going to put on my hypothetical hat for a moment. I don't truly believe any of the following but I feel that it is a good way to highlight what I feel is wrong with the opposing view.

*puts hat on*
I know that a prophet existed and in order to respect this prophet, I must follow his teachings. Respecting this prophet is the most important thing I can possibly do.

This prophet taught that it was offensive for a person with a ring finger precisely half an inch shorter than their middle finger to be allowed to live. Therefore, I, and 1 billion fellow believers, are very offended that these digitally challenged people are indeed allowed to live and have decided to peacefully demonstrate until every one of them is executed in a humane manner.

We have no evidence for our beliefs beyond the strength of our convictions. We expect that since all other matters are secondary to respecting the prophet and the prophet demanded the execution of Welsh people in order for this respect to be fulfilled, that people not of our faith should follow our wishes.
*takes hat off*

Would it be reasonable for a non-believer to accomodate the wishes of this religious movement considering they are wholly based on unsubstantiated faith? Would it be reasonable for a member of this religious movement to expect a non-believer to accomodate their wishes considering their beliefs are wholly based on unsubstantiated faith?
 

d.

_______
this thread has gone so far OT...

michel said:
we, in the West, try to set a good example to others. - most of the time.

Sometimes, some of our people behave badly too, but they are punished for doing so, unlike your bad people who are looked upon as martyrs and heroes. Grow up.
this has never been a matter of west vs. east. and we, the west are not a unified culture by a long shot. neither is the east.

the danish newspaper weren't gloriously holding the flag of freedom of speech high. they were insulting a minority group, as they've done countless times before. they're using the conflicts and tensions that bad integration and immigrant politics has rooted deep in scandinavian society for their own ends.

sure, freedom of speech means allowing opinions that we don't like. and i don't think they should have been censored - but i sure don't want these nitwits speaking for me either.

the reaction of certain groups in the muslim world were just as horrible, of course. that still doesn't mean that this is a fight between the right of freedom of speech vs. censorship.

this can only be a conflict between "the east" and "the west" if we simplify the issue to a ridiculous point. and speaking as a representative of the west, i don't want to be any part of that. what is causing this conflict is the tendency of both sides to blow things out of proportion.
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
YmirGF said:
Strangely Mr. JD, I made the rediculous assumption that I was a part of an intelligent peaceful, respectful world. Apparently not. Wonder where I am living then?

Curiously, I thought I was a part of this civilization. Apparently not.


Forgive me, Judgment Day, as I am merely an unrepentant infidel. The two exact quotes form this very thread was what set me off. Then again, what could the words of a kaffir possibly matter. Point taken. How silly of me to think I was included in your demands for us to respect Islamic sensitivies. No doubt you will grin from ear to ear when it is my turn to face Allah.

What do I know for Allah knows best.
My point is that I'm not insisting of anyone to respect me, for respect cannot be forced, it must come from your heart. I didnt demand anything explicitly for you to respect me. That is not how respect is earned. Now, what have I done to you for me not to earn your respect? Have I insulted you? Have I said anything wrong? Haven't I done any 'good actions' to earn your respect? Please tell me YmirGF, where have I done wrong to you that I do not earn your respect? Or is it just merely your sensitivity to Islam?

YmirGF said:
If you want my respect, for yourself or your Prophet... you are going to have to earn it.

And why do I have to do anything for you to respect My Prophet? For he is already the most respectful man. For he has the most noble heart in the world that nobody can imagine:

Referring to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) Allah, Most High, says, (And you (stand) on an exalted standard of character.) (Al-Qalam 68: 4) (Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah.) (Al-Ahzab 33: 21)

The uniqueness of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is that he was not only a great person in his own time, but he is great for all times, for all people of any race, color, nationality or geographical location. His example was good for the 7th century Arabs and it is good also for the humanity living now at the beginning of this 21st century. He is an excellent example for the rich and poor, for young and old, for rulers and ruled, for the most intelligent as well as the most common people. Allah sent him as His Prophet for all humanity. Allah says in the Qur’an: (Say: ‘O people! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He that gives both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believed in Allah and His Words: follow him that (so) you may be guided.) (Al-A`raf 7: 158)

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) practiced what he preached. He very carefully and meticulously followed the Qur’an, Allah’s Word that was revealed to him. He followed and lived the Qur’an at every moment in every detail of his life. His life was the reflection of Allah’s Words. He became the Qur’an in person, the embodiment of the Qur’an, or one may even say in a metaphorical sense “the Word in flesh”. It is reported in a Hadith: Sa`d ibn Hisham said that he asked `A’ishah, Prophet’s wife (may Allah be pleased with her) “Tell me about the character of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).” She said, “His character was the Qur’an.” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith No. 24139)

The morality of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was not restricted to just a few moral attributes, but included diverse traits and aspects of life. He was kind, compassionate, caring, generous and humble, but he was also strong, brave, eloquent, wise and insightful. He was a great planner, organizer and thinker, yet he was also a man of faith, trust and devotion to Allah. He was involved and active with his family and community but he did not neglect his prayers, fasting and devotion to Allah. Actually, he prayed so much that no one prayed like him. He was exemplary as a teacher, preacher, Imam, leader, statesman, judge, commander of the armies as well as a husband, a father, a grandfather, a businessman, a neighbor and a friend.

Before he received the honor of nubuwwah (Prophethood), he was known among the people of Makkah as As-Sadiq Al-Amin, the most honest and trustworthy person. He kept this character throughout his life. He never broke a pledge or promise. Even his enemies could not accuse him of being dishonest.

He was a most humble person. He used to mingle with the poor and sit with them. He stopped people standing up for him. He used to sit wherever there was a place available in an assembly and never sought a prominent or elevated place. The newcomers sometimes would not know who was the Prophet among the people. When he entered the city of Makkah as a conqueror leading a big army, he entered in a most humble manner. In a unique demonstration of humility his forehead was touching the saddle of his camel!

He was the most merciful person. Allah called him as (a mercy to the worlds) (Al-Anbiya’ 21: 107) He was merciful to his family, followers, friends, even enemies. He was merciful to young and old, to humans and to animals. Those who persecuted him in Makkah and killed his relatives and his followers, when they were defeated in the battles and brought as captives, were forgiven by him. He did not ever take revenge or retaliated. He was the most forgiving person.

Constancy was a very important aspect of his moral behavior. Once he established some good way or practice he used to follow it and adhere to it always. He used to say: “The dearest deed to Allah is the one that is performed regularly, even if it was a little.” (Al-Bukhari, No. 5983)

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) has many names reflecting his attributes and qualities. Some of the most beautiful names of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) mentioned in both the Qur’an and Hadith are the following:

Muhammad (the praised one), Ahmad (most praiseworthy), Hamid (the giver of praise and thanks), Ar-Rasul (the Messenger), An-Nabi (the Prophet), Shahid (the witness), Rashid (the righteous), Bashir (the giver of good news), Nadhir (the warner), Da`i (the caller to Allah), Hadi (the guide), Mahi (the remover of evil), Fatih (the conqueror), Ra’uf (the compassionate), Rahim (the merciful), Mujtaba (the chosen one), Mustafa (the selected one), Murtada (the well-pleasing in the sight of Allah), As-Sadiq (the truthful), Al-Amin (the trustworthy), Musaddiq (the confirmer of truth), Habibullah (Allah’s beloved one), Safiullah (the one selected by Allah), Najiullah (the one protected by Allah), Shakur (the most grateful one), Karim (the noble one), Hakim (the wise one), Sayyid (the leader), Siraj Munir (the shining lamp), Jawwad (the generous one), `Adil (the Just), and Khatam Ar-Rusul (the final Messenger). May peace and blessings of Allah be upon him!
Now isnt that enough for Prophet Muhammad to earn you respect, tell me dear YmirGF?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Judgement Day said:
Now isnt that enough for Prophet Muhammad to earn you respect, ...
Frankly, no. A barbaric culture willing to riot and kill in the name of your Prophet is clearly capable of fabricating lies about him. The only way to earn respect for Muhammad is to earn respect for Islam, and that is not done by endorsing and/or defending those who make Islam look very much like a cancer on civilization.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
michel said:
Yes, peace. If you would be prepared to (truly) accept that we have a right to our views. I think some of your people are so bothered about being heard that they aren't listening any more.
Who is the one who isn't listening? :confused:

Yes, sometimes, it is very sad, but that is the case. For World peace, thousands of Germans and Japanese died during WWII so that people like you would have the opportunity of living in peace.
What is the relation between me and "the German and Japanese"? please explain more if you don't mind because i'm not seeing how those people in WWII who fouhgt "the German and Japanese" gave me the a chance again "as you assumed" to live.

Repugnant as the idea is, sometimes, a peaceful man has to fight, to iensure injustices do not take place.............That is part of the Reason Saddam Hussein was captured, and is now standing Trial (although he seems to think he is a court jester and refuses to acknowledge the courts. If you don't like the idea of the interference, would you like to go and life, with Saddam, as your leader ?
Saddam was a close friend to USA then after they have been satisfied with him, they dropped his card.

Garbage. " If people said that they were offended by showing Mohammed in that way ". AND they demonstrate in a peaceful manner, they will be due respect.
This is how i reacted along with my friends and all other Muslims around the world.

If however, their idea of complaint is to kill and bomb buildings, then they have crossed the line of being due respect.
You are blind, man!!!, YOU JUST SEE ONLY WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AND IGNORE THE REST.

The truth, you are the comedian here.
Thanks for the compliments.

Well good for you, laugh all day! Laughter is the best medicine.
Just learn from mistakes, be violent, and we will be violent in defending ourselves
What are you talking about for God's sake. :banghead3

Am i violent now Michel ???

(actually, you won't because we, in the West, try to set a good example to others. - most of the time.
Please stop using "WE" as you represent all countries in the west and start using "I" instead because you are playing the game of the west against the east.

Sometimes, some of our people behave badly too, but they are punished for doing so, unlike your bad people who are looked upon as martyrs and heroes. Grow up.
Again, you just see what you want to see, the bad people among Muslims also always were punished.

i'll give you a hint, go and search "you are prfessional in it" why the USA government along with the CIA sent some prisoners to Egypt? Why they used european airport secretly?

They know that Egypt and the other arabic countries are friends and they can well make the prsioners suffer till death if they didn't confess.

Go and read how all muslims countries are suffering from terrorists worse than USA and UK. If the terrorists striked once or twice there in the west so they did it many times in the islamic countries. Many families lost thier sons in this war against terrorism but what they get from you, to call me and them terrorists. :(

May Allah forgive you Michel.

Peace be upon you ..

Read here dear ..


divine said:
this thread has gone so far OT...

this has never been a matter of west vs. east. and we, the west are not a unified culture by a long shot. neither is the east.

the danish newspaper weren't gloriously holding the flag of freedom of speech high. they were insulting a minority group, as they've done countless times before. they're using the conflicts and tensions that bad integration and immigrant politics has rooted deep in scandinavian society for their own ends.

sure, freedom of speech means allowing opinions that we don't like. and i don't think they should have been censored - but i sure don't want these nitwits speaking for me either.

the reaction of certain groups in the muslim world were just as horrible, of course. that still doesn't mean that this is a fight between the right of freedom of speech vs. censorship.

this can only be a conflict between "the east" and "the west" if we simplify the issue to a ridiculous point. and speaking as a representative of the west, i don't want to be any part of that. what is causing this conflict is the tendency of both sides to blow things out of proportion.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
...meanwhile dozens of Arab new media outlets will continue to publish and broadcast images of blood sucking rabbis and use jews and symbols of Judaism for purposes of demonization....

hypocricy continues
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Frankly, no. A barbaric culture willing to riot and kill in the name of your Prophet is clearly capable of fabricating lies about him. The only way to earn respect for Muhammad is to earn respect for Islam, and that is not done by endorsing and/or defending those who make Islam look very much like a cancer on civilization.
I beg your pardon? Me? Defending them :areyoucra? When did I say that? Why would I defend them while they are making a bad image for my religion? I am posolutely absitively against them!

And I am against terrorism, mind you.
Wake up :slap:!
 

Judgement Day

Active Member
jewscout said:
...meanwhile dozens of Arab new media outlets will continue to publish and broadcast images of blood sucking rabbis and use jews and symbols of Judaism for purposes of demonization....

hypocricy continues
Mr Jewscout,

It seems that you still dont understand the relationship between Muslims and Prophet Muhammad.Dozens of people have also been publishing and broadcasting images of blood sucking Imam's and Islamic symbols for purposes of demonization. It's not too bad I guess, since there hasnt been any holocaust triggered by this. But this cannot be compared to insulting images of Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad is like the closest thing to our heart, our dearest most beloved. How more can I say about the Prophet?


There was a time in my youth,
When Islam was only a custom.
They said, “Say la ilaha illa-llah
And pray you’ll go to Heaven.”


Ah, how simple, no struggle in this.
Just a word, and simple act.
Thereafter, I’m absorbed in this world again
With my “assured” place in Paradise intact.


But this was not to be my fate
For Allah chose to guide my heart.
I learnt of a man who struggled so hard
When his mission was from the start.


The story of someone who had morals,
Spoke gently; kindness he knew.
Never fearing to say what’s right,
His conviction in Islam was true.


The touch of his hand was as soft as silk
To comfort a crying child
To mend his clothes or do the chores,
Never complaining, he always smiled.


His smell was always of musk,
And cleanliness he kept at his best.
Stark contrast with the heroes of today,
Who stink of beer and sweat.


He held the hands of his Companions,
Unashamed to play with many children.
So modest, so humble, a perfect example
That strangers could not recognize him.


His eyes slept little for nights were precious,
His prayers he treasured much greater.
To pray Tahajjud in the depths of night,
Seeking forgiveness, and nearness to his Creator.


He broke his tooth for me at Uhud
And bled for me at Ta’if.
He cried for me, tears of concern,
Just so I could have this belief.


His enemies admired his teachings,
Uniting every religion, every clan.
Till Islam came to every corner of the world,
O, but indeed he was only a man.


To own a house or build his wealth,
Was not his main priority.
To establish Islam was more essential,
To bring us under a higher authority.


Don’t you want him to plead for your case
When before Allah the Judge you stand?
Don’t you wish to be around his fountain,
A burning desire to drink from his hand?


So I love him more than all creation,
My leader, my humble Prophet.
Muhammad was a mercy to all mankind
And to me he is my beloved.


Taken from: http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/kharitah/article30.shtml

Peace and Blessings :)...
 

Darkdale

World Leader Pretend
Jayhawker Soule said:
Frankly, no. A barbaric culture willing to riot and kill in the name of your Prophet is clearly capable of fabricating lies about him. The only way to earn respect for Muhammad is to earn respect for Islam, and that is not done by endorsing and/or defending those who make Islam look very much like a cancer on civilization.

Certainly a reformation is in order.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Mr Jewscout,

It seems that you still dont understand the relationship between Muslims and Prophet Muhammad.Dozens of people have also been publishing and broadcasting images of blood sucking Imam's and Islamic symbols for purposes of demonization. It's not too bad I guess, since there hasnt been any holocaust triggered by this. But this cannot be compared to insulting images of Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad is like the closest thing to our heart, our dearest most beloved. How more can I say about the Prophet?
what you still do not understand is that i don't approve of any kind of racial/ethnic/ or religious bigotry.
the use of the symbols of Judaism and the Jewish faith in Arab press is as tactless as those of the image of Muhammad and i do not approve of either.

do not pretend like the Muhammad cartoon is wrong while image of the Magen David (star of david) with the swastika superimposed on it, published in state funded arab media, is OK.

i consider it all bigotry, period.
 
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