Fundies regularly argue that abortion is murder.
So it's widely believed that mothers are committing
the crime, independently of what the mothers believe.
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Texas Republicans Call For Execution of Women Who Receive Abortions, IVF In Horrifying Video
- Thread starter Wandering Monk
- Start date
So it's widely believed that mothers are committing
the crime, independently of what the mothers believe.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
I agree. That is not who I was talking about in my comments. I was talking about the mothers themselves.
No, but when you vote for someone who supports these policies that does mean you support them. Even if you don't know you are supporting them.
And I will go even further. If you don't vote for someone who opposes these policies, you are supporting these policies by default.
Their problem is that people who elect & even
become politicians might want them executed
for murder.
Such fervent pro-lifers don't cut slack for others
who don't believe that a fetus is a full blown
person who's merely "pre-born"
Are you saying that a vote for a politician means
supporting every policy the politician supports?
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
This is not true. Have you ever voted for someone that you agree with 100%? I doubt it. I never have. I voted for Trump in 2016 and will again in 2024 but I did not agree with his handling of the debt and deficits. I disagree with him on that and do not support him on that policy. You have an impossible standard.
That is exactly what I am saying. Thank you for spelling it out so clearly.
And do you think you know better?
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
I know I think differently than the mothers that have abortions do about the unborn.
And do you think your "different thinking" should override their thinking?
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
How so? I cannot override their thinking, they are independent thinking people. The abortion issue should be left up to the states as the constitution clearly indicates. In my state I would vote to not allow abortions. I am not for a national abortion ban.
I did not say "agree with", I said support. If I vote for someone who supports a policy I don't agree with, I am supporting a policy that I don't agree with. And I have to be able to live with that. I can't pretend I didn't support it.
I can't vote for someone who wants to put kids in cages just because I want a lower corporate tax rate, and pretend I am not responsible. I can't vote for someone who wants kill women who get abortions because I call myself pro-life, and pretend I am not responsible for that.
So again:
When you vote for someone who supports these policies that does mean you support them. Even if you don't know you are supporting them. And even if you don't agree with them.
And I will go even further. If you don't vote for someone who opposes these policies, you are supporting these policies by default. Even if you don't want to support them.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
A woman has actually been charged with murder in Texas for having an abortion. This is NOT hypothetical.
www.kens5.com
Texas woman charged with murder for self-induced abortion sues Starr County district attorney
The Starr County district attorney dropped the improper charges, but the fallout “forever changed the Plaintiff’s life,” a new federal lawsuit says.
These were Texas GOP representatives acting in their official capacity. If the Texas GOP doesn't take a stance against their members' actions, it will most definitely mean they approve of what their members did. This doesn't mean that they necessarily agree that it was the best course of action, but they'll be endorsing it as an acceptable course of action.
As far as other groups go, I don't think any specific anti-choice group has a responsibility to speak out against actions that people unaffiliated with them took, but if there's absolute silence from the organized anti-choice community, that's meaningful.
Most people have dealbreakers when it comes to voting. For instance, the notwithstanding clause is a dealbreaker for me: I won't vote for any politician who has ever voted to use it.
If you vote for a candidate who supports murder - and not just "abortion is murder" or "meat is murder," but literal crimes that you recognize as murder - then supporting murder is not a dealbreaker for you.
You may not agree with murder, but you wouldn't be so opposed to it that it would stop you from voting for that candidate.
Abortion is medical care. Not only does it not warrant punishment, it warrants support.
Heyo
Veteran Member
That's exactly what I said about shifting the Overton window. It is now no longer anathema, no longer something unthinkable. You can even say it aloud without ruining your career.
And when these ultra extremist views become part of the conversation, views that were previously consider extreme now seem moderate by comparison. When someone says something like, "I don't want to execute the women who get abortions, that it too far. I just think we should execute the doctors" that is called a moderate view.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
OK, we will see what they do.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
Murder would be a deal breaker for me for any candidate so would death penalty for women that have abortions. But it depends on the office as well. I have voted for pro-choice candidates for railroad commissioner in Texas, they provide regulatory oversight to the gas and oil industry in Texas. That office has no say in the abortion issue so I am ok voting for that person even though I don't support their view on abortion.