Texas United Methodist churches

[Riders]

Why are so many United Methodist churches out here withdrawing from the denomination?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why are so many United Methodist churches out here withdrawing from the denomination?

I follow religious news, so maybe I can tell you a tiny bit.

The denomination is splitting over the gay issue, which includes whether clergy can be gay and whether the denomination will do same sex marraiges.

I few years back, the denominational headquarters took a vote, and the results were to continue going by the Bible's commandment against homosexual acts. IOW, no same sex marraiges etc.

The problem began when a large number of United Methodist Churches gave the middle finger to the vote, and went ahead with a pro-LGBT agenda anyhow.

So now those great many local churches don't want to have anything to do with the denomination, and are voting again, this time with their feet.


This split that is going on is happening in almost every denomination out there, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc. You do have some denominations that are still intact, like the Catholic Church, but only because it has a strict authoritarian rule, and even with that, there is a lot of divisiveness over the gay issue with pro-LGBT saying the church needs to change more, and pro-Bible saying that the church has slipped to far into accepting sin. Francis is not helping much, with his ambiguous remarks like "Who am I to judge?" Anyhow, didn't want to go off on a catholic tangent. Just to let you know that this schism is happening throughout Christianity, not just among United Methodists.

 

[metis]

You do have some denominations that are still intact, like the Catholic Church, but only because it has a strict authoritarian rule

Not really in this modern age as what Catholics tend to do with that which they may disagree with is to just ignore the specific teachings that they may disagree with which, according to the Catechism, is our right.

As one of our former priests put it, the Church is like the Roman traffic cop, whereas some obey him, some pay only some attention to him, and some pretty much just do their own thing. However, if there is an accident, here's where the cop can come in to sort out the mess.

 

[Riders]

I am considering Catholicism and thinking about that myself. I am liberal when it comes to the LGBTQ movement. Even if I were to believe it is wrong there's been too much hate, and trauma done to the LGBTQ community, through the church.

I am not sure what I think about biblical scripture on it, but many gays and lesbians have been physically and psychologically abused because of their sexual orientation for religious reasons. A person's sex life is their own and between them and God.

On the other hand, I think abortion is wrong, and conservatives have it right when it comes to finance. So I am a LIbertarian both liberal and conservative depending on the issues. I am thinking about these issues though. I don't see anything wrong with not talking about politics in church. I have not decided that I will become a Christian if I do it will be because I feel the leading of God in that direction not because of scientific or historical proof.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am considering Catholicism and thinking about that myself. I am liberal when it comes to the LGBTQ movement. Even if I were to believe it is wrong there's been too much hate, and trauma done to the LGBTQ community, through the church.

I am not sure what I think about biblical scripture on it, but many gays and lesbians have been physically and psychologically abused because of their sexual orientation for religious reasons. A person's sex life is their own and between them and God.

On the other hand, I think abortion is wrong, and conservatives have it right when it comes to finance. So I am a LIbertarian both liberal and conservative depending on the issues. I am thinking about these issues though. I don't see anything wrong with not talking about politics in church. I have not decided that I will become a Christian if I do it will be because I feel the leading of God in that direction not because of scientific or historical proof.

It is my understanding that the Catholic church will only convert you if you accept its teachings. You either believe in the authority of the Catholic Church, or you don't.

 

[Muffled]

The UMC has been heading in the direction of LBG for a while now. Christians who wish to not become apostate are faced with the question of extricating themselves from the denomination because of it. So far it has worked as it did with the Episcopal church it has led to schism and congregations splitting apart. In Texas it is more likely that the faithful Christians are in the majority and the churches can separate from the denomination. There are three options: 1. Independence 2. A different Methodist denomination ( I know of Free Will and Primitive denominations and there is also AME) 3. Set up a new denomination the way the Episcopalians did.

 

[Muffled]

I am considering Catholicism and thinking about that myself. I am liberal when it comes to the LGBTQ movement. Even if I were to believe it is wrong there's been too much hate, and trauma done to the LGBTQ community, through the church.

I am not sure what I think about biblical scripture on it, but many gays and lesbians have been physically and psychologically abused because of their sexual orientation for religious reasons. A person's sex life is their own and between them and God.

On the other hand, I think abortion is wrong, and conservatives have it right when it comes to finance. So I am a LIbertarian both liberal and conservative depending on the issues. I am thinking about these issues though. I don't see anything wrong with not talking about politics in church. I have not decided that I will become a Christian if I do it will be because I feel the leading of God in that direction not because of scientific or historical proof.

I believe what you are saying is you have your own beliefs and God can take a hike if He doesn't like it.

 

[Riders]

I believe what you are saying is you have your own beliefs and God can take a hike if He doesn't like it.

No, I said the opposite. I said GLBTQs should have their relationship with God, and ask for direction from God. God can direct them to the right soul mate, and when God has a hand in it we do not need to worry if GLBTqs are right or
wrong.I can pray for them and pray to God and ask God to guide them. What's wrong with that?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, I said the opposite. I said GLBTQs should have their relationship with God, and ask for direction from God. God can direct them to the right soul mate, and when God has a hand in it we do not need to worry if GLBTqs are right or
wrong.I can pray for them and pray to God and ask God to guide them. What's wrong with that?

Because God is not going to "lead anyone to their soulmate." Soulmates don't even exist. Each of us is responsible to search for someone we think is a good match.

 

[metis]

It is my understanding that the Catholic church will only convert you if you accept its teachings. You either believe in the authority of the Catholic Church, or you don't.

Generally speaking, the litmus test to convert of Catholicism is general agreement with the Nicene Creed, which goes like this:
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Generally speaking, the litmus test to convert of Catholicism is general agreement with the Nicene Creed, which goes like this:
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

I almost remember that by heart, though I rarely go to Mass these days. There are parts of that creed I couldn't recite without misgivings, but I'm still a (non-practicing) catholic in my heart, despite inclining also towards Buddhism. Key to my continuing identification with Roman Catholicism, is the following definition of the word 'catholic';

cath·olic
[ˈkaθ(ə)lɪk]

ADJECTIVE

1. including a wide variety of things; all-embracing:
   "her tastes are pretty catholic"
   SIMILAR:
   diverse
   diversified
   wide
   broad
   broad-based
   eclectic

 

[metis]

There are parts of that creed I couldn't recite without misgivings, but I'm still a (non-practicing) catholic in my heart, despite inclining also towards Buddhism

During mass, I don't recite the creed for much the same reason. I have a strong influence from Hinduism with some Buddhist additions.

including a wide variety of things; all-embracing:
"her tastes are pretty catholic"
SIMILAR:
diverse
diversified
wide
broad
broad-based
eclectic

Exactly.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Generally speaking, the litmus test to convert of Catholicism is general agreement with the Nicene Creed, which goes like this:
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

Yes, that is standard for catechumenates. But I was thinking more of CANDIDATES, those who are already baptized Christian but are being received into the Catholic church. If I'm not mistaken, there is some affirmation they have to publicly make that they accept the teachings of the Catholic church. Am I wrong on this?

 

[pearl]

If I'm not mistaken, there is some affirmation they have to publicly make that they accept the teachings of the Catholic church. Am I wrong on this?

I don't know of any public statements, but converts are expected to abide by Church teachings; receiving the sacraments, especially
Eucharist and Penance. In order to remain a 'practicing' catholic, one must receive Eucharist once a year, confess any mortal sin etc.
There is more here

Catholic statement of faith

Catholic statement of faith

elrenosacredheart.com

The Church may teach many things, what is mandatory to believe is the 'deposit of faith'.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I don't know of any public statements, but converts are expected to abide by Church teachings; receiving the sacraments, especially
Eucharist and Penance. In order to remain a 'practicing' catholic, one must receive Eucharist once a year, confess any mortal sin etc.
There is more here

Catholic statement of faith

Catholic statement of faith

elrenosacredheart.com

The Church may teach many things, what is mandatory to believe is the 'deposit of faith'.

Thank you for the link. it states "After joining with the congregation in reciting the Nicene Creed, the person being received into the Catholic Church makes the following profession of faith : I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."

 

[metis]

Thank you for the link. it states "After joining with the congregation in reciting the Nicene Creed, the person being received into the Catholic Church makes the following profession of faith : I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God."

And trust me on this, probably most Catholic just blow that off. An example is the Church's teaching on birth control, whereas surveys I've seen in the past indicate that over 90% of Catholics virtually ignore it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I follow religious news, so maybe I can tell you a tiny bit.

The denomination is splitting over the gay issue, which includes whether clergy can be gay and whether the denomination will do same sex marraiges.

I few years back, the denominational headquarters took a vote, and the results were to continue going by the Bible's commandment against homosexual acts. IOW, no same sex marraiges etc.

The problem began when a large number of United Methodist Churches gave the middle finger to the vote, and went ahead with a pro-LGBT agenda anyhow.

So now those great many local churches don't want to have anything to do with the denomination, and are voting again, this time with their feet.


This split that is going on is happening in almost every denomination out there, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc. You do have some denominations that are still intact, like the Catholic Church, but only because it has a strict authoritarian rule, and even with that, there is a lot of divisiveness over the gay issue with pro-LGBT saying the church needs to change more, and pro-Bible saying that the church has slipped to far into accepting sin. Francis is not helping much, with his ambiguous remarks like "Who am I to judge?" Anyhow, didn't want to go off on a catholic tangent. Just to let you know that this schism is happening throughout Christianity, not just among United Methodists.

Haven't seen it that bad since Bishop Spong.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And trust me on this, probably most Catholic just blow that off. An example is the Church's teaching on birth control, whereas surveys I've seen in the past indicate that over 90% of Catholics virtually ignore it.

Look, I don't want to boss people around religiously, but as a general rule of thumb, I think that any vow made when lying invalidates the vow. But this is really an internal issue for you guys, so I'll leave it to you catholics, now.

 

[Riders]

I have not decided to be Christian yet. If and when I do I will decided weather Catholicism is right for me. For varius d9pmifferent rreasons I am looking into it but far from reaching any decision.

I have a huge over 10000 members to a Catholic parish that's vlose to me. My understanding is that they give people to figure out if they are joining g. So it might be another year or 2 before I decide anything.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have not decided to be Christian yet. If and when I do I will decided weather Catholicism is right for me. For varius d9pmifferent rreasons I am looking into it but far from reaching any decision.

I have a huge over 10000 members to a Catholic parish that's vlose to me. My understanding is that they give people to figure out if they are joining g. So it might be another year or 2 before I decide anything.

Not trying to push you any particular direction. I wish you a good journey in finding your home.

You might want to call this local catholic parish. I know that they have classes that (usually beginning in the fall) called RCIA or Rite of Chrsitain Initiation for Adults. These classes will introduce you to the basics of Catholicism, and are designed not to be pushy. As you draw nearer to Easter, which is when they do their baptisms, then you will be for incremental increases in commitment. If you drop out, or if you feel unready and need more time to think and study, they are fine with that.