Texas will bill electric vehicle drivers an extra $200 a year

[Nakosis]

I don't believe in "too late".

You are free to believe whatever you want without evide....

Oh... wait. That's the other thread.

 

[Revoltingest]

You are free to believe whatever you want without evide....

Oh... wait. That's the other thread.

This isn't about believing...it's about not believing.
"Too late" inspires people to do nothing productive.
I always see potential to improve things...even bad things.
To engineers, nothing is ever done.
Everything is a work in progress.
This mental defect keeps us employed.
Or if we're retired, occupied.

 

[Nakosis]

This isn't about believing...it's about not believing.
"Too late" inspires people to do nothing productive.
I always see potential to improve things...even bad things.
To engineers, nothing is ever done.
Everything is a work in progress.
This mental defect keeps us employed.
Or if we're retired, occupied.

I see.
Some folks don't require inspiration from others to do something or to do nothing.

But, I understand. Some folks need that inspiration from others.

 

[Revoltingest]

I see.
Some folks don't require inspiration from others to do something or to do nothing.

But, I understand. Some folks need that inspiration from others.

When something goes wrong, it should inspire improvement.
You can give up. I won't.

 

[Nakosis]

When something goes wrong, it should inspire improvement.
You can give up. I won't.

Yes, unfortunately, too many waited to be inspired.
Now the task is more difficult than it had to be.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, unfortunately, too many waited to be inspired.
Now the task is more difficult than it had to be.

Everything is always more difficult than it has to be.
This is because problems aren't solved until there's a problem.

Need any more truisms?

 

[Nakosis]

Everything is always more difficult than it has to be.
This is because problems aren't solved until there's a problem.

Need any more truisms?

I prefer the non-problem myself.
Then I can go about other business.
Like more abundant and fruitful sophistry.

 

[Revoltingest]

I prefer the non-problem myself.
Then I can go about other business.
Like more abundant and fruitful sophistry.

I prefer to use RF to solve the world's problems.
No success yet though.

 

[Nakosis]

I prefer to use RF to solve the world's problems.
No success yet though.

Well, maybe we could all write letters to whomever the next president is to let them know the only advisory board they will ever need is right here on the RF forums.

 

[Heyo]

When something goes wrong, it should inspire improvement.
You can give up. I won't.

You sound like a true progressive.

 

[Revoltingest]

You sound like a true progressive.

I am, of course.

 

[BlueIslandGirl]

There are many things about EVs that are problems.
Does their existence mean EVs are bad?
What's the alternative?
Let's consider problems IC engines burning fossil fuels.
- As with battery materials, fossil fuels must be mined.
Mining degrades the environment.
- Fossil fuels must be transported.
Think of Exxon Valdez & pipeline spills.
- Fossil fuels create greenhouse gases, carcinogenic
particulates, nitrous oxide, carbon monoxide, ozone,
heavy metals, etc.
- Fossil fuels in light aircraft still use tetraethyl lead,
which is a powerful neurotoxin.
- Many owners modify vehicles to enhance pollution,
eg, rolling coal, defeating emission controls.

All cars are bad, including fossil fuel cars and EVs. Neither are sustainable in any way on a finite planet. The choice is not between fossil fuel cars and EVs. The choice is between cars and no cars. If we continue to build and use cars, and the lifestyles they enable (and, obviously, not just cars, but so many of the luxury goods we build and use, especially here in wealthy countries), we will continue killing the planet, and eventually this will lower the carrying capacity of the planet so much, humans will no longer be able to exist, along with the many other species we are taking out with our industrial endeavours.

Our lives are currently entirely built around cars (here in the US and in many other places). The challenge is to figure out how to undo that, not to decide which of two bad choices is better.

 

[Revoltingest]

All cars are bad, including fossil fuel cars and EVs. Neither are sustainable in any way on a finite planet. The choice is not between fossil fuel cars and EVs. The choice is between cars and no cars.

In Ameristan, it currently is.
Public transportation is unavailable to many.
Walking & bicycling aren't practical for many.
So it's inevitable that threads like this one will
abound in our lifetimes.

If we continue to build and use cars, and the lifestyles they enable (and, obviously, not just cars, but so many of the luxury goods we build and use, especially here in wealthy countries), we will continue killing the planet, and eventually this will lower the carrying capacity of the planet so much, humans will no longer be able to exist, along with the many other species we are taking out with our industrial endeavours.

We won't kill the planet. It's survived worse
maladies than the anthropocene mass extinction.
But we will see a reduced quality of life as the
ever expanding population continues to drain
resources, denude the seas, & plow under or
pave over the land.

Our lives are currently entirely built around cars (here in the US and in many other places). The challenge is to figure out how to undo that, not to decide which of two bad choices is better.

I've been arguing to evaluate alternatives,
even the politically impossible (currently) one
of curbing human population. No matter how
we get about, even by foot, that problem will
overwhelm the natural environment.

 

[BlueIslandGirl]

I've been arguing to evaluate alternatives,
even the politically impossible (currently) one
of curbing human population. No matter how
we get about, even by foot, that problem will
overwhelm the natural environment.

Agreed. And it won't last much longer. We are already in catastrophic ecological overshoot. We have prioritized humans over all other life on the planet (human supremacy) and our belief that we are more important than all other species, and our use of advanced technology to separate ourselves from nature (or rather give us the illusion of that separation) will undo us as a species, along with the many we're taking out with ourselves, sooner than later I suspect.

Cars, and all advanced technology, will not be around much longer. Spending time debating which kind of car is better or worse is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. I'd find it funny except that exterminating so much of life on planet Earth isn't funny at all.

Here's the image I like to use to discuss ecological overshoot with people:

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed. And it won't last much longer. We are already in catastrophic ecological overshoot. We have prioritized humans over all other life on the planet (human supremacy) and our belief that we are more important than all other species, and our use of advanced technology to separate ourselves from nature (or rather give us the illusion of that separation) will undo us as a species, along with the many we're taking out with ourselves, sooner than later I suspect.

Cars, and all advanced technology, will not be around much longer. Spending time debating which kind of car is better or worse is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. I'd find it funny except that exterminating so much of life on planet Earth isn't funny at all.

Here's the image I like to use to discuss ecological overshoot with people:


View attachment 81220

I'm more optimistic that humans
will continue to survive on Earth.

 

[BlueIslandGirl]

I'm more optimistic that humans
will continue to survive on Earth.

Given how much we've poisoned the planet so far, I'll be happy if any mammals survive at this point. We've proven ourselves utterly incapable of appreciating the one and only planet we know of that supports life in the Universe. I'm not optimistic that if humans survive the collapse that is coming, we wouldn't do it all over again given the opportunity. I can hope that such humans might "remember" the tiny short blip in human history where we had access to the magic black stuff that made poisoning the planet possible, and build into their mythologies the necessity of not repeating that colossal mistake, but given how much and how quickly we forget history even with encyclopedias and the internet around, it seems unlikely.

 

[Revoltingest]

Given how much we've poisoned the planet so far, I'll be happy if any mammals survive at this point. We've proven ourselves utterly incapable of appreciating the one and only planet we know of that supports life in the Universe. I'm not optimistic that if humans survive the collapse that is coming, we wouldn't do it all over again given the opportunity. I can hope that such humans might "remember" the tiny short blip in human history where we had access to the magic black stuff that made poisoning the planet possible, and build into their mythologies the necessity of not repeating that colossal mistake, but given how much and how quickly we forget history even with encyclopedias and the internet around, it seems unlikely.

OK.