Thanksgiving as a day of Mourning

[sun rise]

From the article:

For Cromwell, Thanksgiving is an opportunity to give thanks, but also to highlight the way that his people suffered at the hands of the settlers.

“We are Americans as well, and so even today, I sit down at Thanksgiving with family,” he said. “I do have that Thanksgiving meal on that day with family but it gives me an opportunity to speak to the kids and the family about the truth of the day, and why that day is important to give thanks.”

Cromwell’s perspective illustrates the dual meaning that Thanksgiving holds for some Native Americans. The day is both a chance to ceremoniously express gratitude — a practice that existed in Native American culture before the Pilgrims arrived — and an opportunity to highlight the challenges the community faces today.

I agree that it's important to have a clear-eyed and honest view of the past. The entire history of the First Nations, to use the Canadian term I like better, needs to be learned and the lessons of the past fully absorbed.

It's off topic but I recommend this short series. Native America | PBS I learned a lot from the first three episodes.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The Pilgrims, as the name implies, were spiritual people who were friendly with the local Indians. The local Indians were friendly back and taught the Pilgrims skills needed to thrive in New England.

The "Pilgrims" were a bunch of religious bigots who'd made themselves so unpopular in England that they had to leave, and who wanted to set up a theocratic state.

The Americans evidently didn't know the story of the man who helped a lame dog over a style and got his hand bitten. The should have treated the migrants as the Andaman Islanders recently treated an Us missionary!

 

[BSM1]

God you're getting increasingly annoying. I'll fix that problem.

Can't take the heat, I reckon...

 

[Revoltingest]

Can't take the heat, I reckon...

Welcome to the ignored poster club.
(You’ll like the secret handshake.....it’s really annoying.)

 

[BSM1]

Welcome to the ignored poster club.
(You’ll like the secret handshake.....it’s really annoying.)

It's an honor, even if dubious.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Welcome to the ignored poster club.
(You’ll like the secret handshake.....it’s really annoying.)

It's an honor, even if dubious.

I've been ignoring both of you for nearly two years now.

I guess I forgot to announce it publicly.

 

[BSM1]

I've been ignoring both of you for nearly two years now.

I guess I forgot to announce it publicly.

We knew, we just didn't want to embarrass you....

 

[Revoltingest]

I've been ignoring both of you for nearly two years now.

I guess I forgot to announce it publicly.

But at least you do it with both style & dignity.

 

[Kapalika]

A lot of you replying that it isn't or shouldn't be about mourning, are entirely missing the point which is to see this from a Native American perspective.

The meaning of a holiday often changes over time. Christmas sure has. So has Columbus Day. I think Thanksgiving has too.

Christmas has become something resembling a potlatch. Columbus Day is becoming a day of mourning. And Thanksgiving? Not quite sure, but I don't think it has much to do with the Puritans or with immigration to the Americas anymore.

It does for Natives, based on my experience with the ones that have been in my life. It isn't for white people, but it is for Native Americans. That's why I made this topic, to show the day from their perspective.

Nice to have this perspective but why have this perspective on this day?

I also reflect on it on Columbus Day, and generally whenever the topic comes up.

 

[BSM1]

A lot of you replying that it isn't or shouldn't be about mourning, are entirely missing the point which is to see this from a Native American perspective.



It does for Natives, based on my experience with the ones that have been in my life. It isn't for white people, but it is for Native Americans. That's why I made this topic, to show the day from their perspective.

I also reflect on it on Columbus Day, and generally whenever the topic comes up.

In all fairness no native american was harmed on the original Thanksgiving Day. This may simply be another example of not letting an excuse for victimization go to waste.

 

[wandering peacefully]

For parts of my childhood, I was raised by my late grandmother who had an affinity for the Native Americans and their beliefs. This thanksgiving, I found myself thinking about her, and the things about them she taught me.

This lead me to come across what some Natives had to say about Thanksgiving;

Why Thanksgiving Is A 'National Day Of Mourning' For Some Americans | HuffPost

“Some would say, ‘Why be so dark about it?’ Well, it’s real, it’s truthful, it was a holocaust, and that holocaust must be shared and communicated so that we ensure that mankind doesn’t do that to each other again,” Cromwell said. “We know this world is made up of travesty and tragedy. We also know that this world is made of a lot of goodness and hope and honesty and integrity.”

.A video as well:

Edit (forgot this part):

I should also mention that I was engaged to a woman who was part native american too at one point and was familiar enough with her roots that she could speak Navajo fluently, and she wasn't quite a fan of thanksgiving either and she was also an influence on how I started to see the holiday. Similar I'm friends with a Native American who brought it up recently as well. So me talking about this, isn't something I do to be antithetical to the status quo (unlike some might assume).

Also, a link I forgot (I wanted to give two viewpoints): Do American Indians celebrate Thanksgiving?

The problem is, American children are not taught the truth in the younger grades. I'm afraid the result is total ignorance of the Indigenous Peoples. Their true history and pre-history, their culture, foods, history between Tribes and especially not how they feel or how European contact on has sickened their lives and has almost destroyed some of their entire cultures.

I'm sorry for that ignorance and lack of compassion by grown adults.

We just tried to ADD to not replace. Columbus Day with Indigenous People's Day on the same day. 3 of us spoke for the day and also 3 out of 7 councilors. No one else said a woRd about it. The 4 republican councilors voted no. The 3 democratic voted yes.

I just sat and thought how sad to be so hateful and uncaring. I had only spoken briefly in favor because I thought it should be a no brainer.

Next meeting I am going to educate the 4 right wing members the true history of Columbus . And they will have to listen.

So I understand completely your point of view. It is the same with Thanksgiving being a sore event for some. But I know getting together with family for sharing food will hopefully be a happy time too.

Education and compassion is a hard thing for some folks. But 6 in town for and 4 against is a lot better than in the past 400 years.

So here's to Indigenous People's Day. Cheers.

 

[BSM1]

The problem is, American children are not taught the truth in the younger grades. I'm afraid the result is total ignorance of the Indigenous Peoples. Their true history and pre-history, their culture, foods, history between Tribes and especially not how they feel or how European contact on has sickened their lives and has almost destroyed some of their entire cultures.

I'm sorry for that ignorance and lack of compassion by grown adults.

We just tried to ADD to not replace. Columbus Day with Indigenous People's Day on the same day. 3 of us spoke for the day and also 3 out of 7 councilors. No one else said a woRd about it. The 4 republican councilors voted no. The 3 democratic voted yes.

I just sat and thought how sad to be so hateful and uncaring. I had only spoken briefly in favor because I thought it should be a no brainer.

Next meeting I am going to educate the 4 right wing members the true history of Columbus . And they will have to listen.

So I understand completely your point of view. It is the same with Thanksgiving being a sore event for some. But I know getting together with family for sharing food will hopefully be a happy time too.

Education and compassion is a hard thing for some folks. But 6 in town for and 4 against is a lot better than in the past 400 years.

So here's to Indigenous People's Day. Cheers.

To quote a well known leftie "What possible difference can it make now?".

 

[Kapalika]

To quote a well known leftie "What possible difference can it make now?".

It's still happening, the crimes against Native Americans. Hell someone just on the first page of this topic linked to an article alluding to that.

One of the videos I saw when deciding which one to share for this topic, a native woman pointed this out, that it DOES make a difference because of what is going on even today.

 

[BSM1]

It's still happening, the crimes against Native Americans. Hell someone just on the first page of this topic linked to an article alluding to that.

One of the videos I saw when deciding which one to share for this topic, a native woman pointed this out, that it DOES make a difference because of what is going on even today.

Bull....and not Sitting.

 

[Cooky]

It's not for me. I'm a positive person, and I'm forward thinking -I only have time for positive energy on my holidays.

...Right now, I'm thinking Turkey, cranberry sauce, and grandma's secret stuffing recipe. Mmmmmmmmm.

 

[Kapalika]

Bull....and not Sitting.

How ignorant. Do you really think they are not being screwed over today?

Besides the other poster bringing up this, I found all this pretty quickly:

5 Ways The Government Keeps Native Americans In Poverty
Trump challenges Native Americans’ historical standing
Native Americans' sovereignty is at risk, and the high court must help save it | Stephen Pevar
https://psmag.com/social-justice/fo...ression-in-north-dakota-is-only-the-beginning
Republicans wanted to suppress the Native American vote. It's working | Julian Brave NoiseCat
Judge allows North Dakota Republicans to stop some Native Americans from voting
4 Ways We Screwed Over Native Americans (And Still Are)

As said, at 1:22

"Because it's still going on."

It isn't a massacre, but it's the erasure of a people and their voice.

 

[Kapalika]

I am honestly shocked by many of these responses.

To me it kinda went like this;

"Hey! Maybe we should see how the Native Americans see thanksgiving, since they are a huge part of it's history."

"Nah, I think only our white version and perspective should be considered."

Like for real? Are people just uncomfortable with the idea of seeing it from the Native American perspective?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I am honestly shocked by many of these responses.

To me it kinda went like this;

"Hey! Maybe we should see how the Native Americans see thanksgiving, since they are a huge part of it's history."

"Nah, I think only our white version and perspective should be considered."

Like for real? Are people just uncomfortable with the idea of seeing it from the Native American perspective?

To me, it kinda went like this;

Hey, maybe we didn't treat Native Americans all that great when we Anglo Saxons sailed over here.

But I was raised in a tradition of being thankful on Thanksgiving.

And I wasn't alive in 1620.

And I didn't partake in the oppression of Native Americans.

Today is Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for...

 

[Kapalika]

To me, it kinda went like this;

Hey, maybe we didn't treat Native Americans all that great when we Anglo Saxons sailed over here.

But I was raised in a tradition of being thankful on Thanksgiving.

And I wasn't alive in 1620.

And I didn't partake in the oppression of Native Americans.

Today is Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for...

Well, then you are describing the same thing I did. Even if it isn't intentional it's still missing the point of my topic, which was for us to consider the Native American perspective. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th are just making excuses for why we shouldn't bother to even consider it, even when these people are a huge part of the story and attach so much mourning to it and still do due to what is even going on today. It's the irony that shocks me, more than anything.

My point was that even today it's a day of mourning because they are still being screwed over. I forgot about it but just saw mention of it on facebook;

hhttps://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/south-dakota/articles/2018-04-07/pipeline-spill-in-south-dakota-twice-as-big-as-first-thought

So we still steal their land, but of course it's today so it was over oil. You know they wanted to bulldoze through sacred burial grounds? I can't recall if they did or not, but either way it's still messed up.

Keystone pipeline's path cuts across Native American land, history

Native Americans Protest Keystone XL Pipeline Because They Know What It Represents

Take notes @BSM1 this is all that oppression I was saying is still happening.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Well, then you are describing the same thing I did. Even if it isn't intentional it's still missing the point of my topic, which was for us to consider the Native American perspective. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th are just making excuses for why we shouldn't bother to even consider it, even when these people are a huge part of the story and attach so much mourning to it and still do due to what is even going on today. It's the irony that shocks me, more than anything.

My point was that even today it's a day of mourning because they are still being screwed over. I forgot about it but just saw mention of it on facebook;

hhttps://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/south-dakota/articles/2018-04-07/pipeline-spill-in-south-dakota-twice-as-big-as-first-thought

So we still steal their land, but of course it's today so it was over oil. You know they wanted to bulldoze through sacred burial grounds? I can't recall if they did or not, but either way it's still messed up.

Keystone pipeline's path cuts across Native American land, history

Native Americans Protest Keystone XL Pipeline Because They Know What It Represents

Take notes @BSM1 this is all that oppression I was saying is still happening.

While you may disagree, (and you have every right to do so), I see the purpose of this thread as to shame anyone who celebrates the holiday.

I see it as unfair to dump political propaganda on a holiday tradition.