That question about men, women, identical jobs and payment.

[David Young]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

 

[Kenny]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

For me, that is a tough question because there are too many variables IMO. When are two people really exactly the same?

Example:

Entry level for cooking Chic-Fil-A sandwiches (female). $15.00 an hour. Man who has been there for 15 years, $20/hr. (or visa-versa) Both doing the same job... but are they really equal?

Both start exactly at the same rate but people will omit the nuances to politicize a point. So, somewhere, there are usually nuances.

 

[exchemist]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

Aha, a coat-trailing thread, I see.

Since the practice you refer to is against the law in most western countries, I presume the answer will be "none".

This was yesterday's issue. Today's pay disparity issue is different. But that is not the thread topic, of course. You could start a thread on that if you like. But you won't.

 

[David Young]

If, over the space of more than one term of office for an elected parliament in Poland, the UK or the USA, I do not hear anyone make the claim that such jobs exist, then I will stop asking the question.

If.

 

[Stevicus]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

If, over the space of more than one term of office for an elected parliament in Poland, the UK or the USA, I do not hear anyone make the claim that such jobs exist, then I will stop asking the question.

If.

So you're addressing the idea of "equal pay for equal work"?

I found this article on the subject, about a year old: 5 Facts About the State of the Gender Pay Gap | U.S. Department of Labor Blog (dol.gov)

1. Women earn 82 cents for every dollar a man earns
According to Bureau of Labor Statistics data, in 2020, women’s annual earnings were 82.3% of men’s, and the gap is even wider for many women of color. Though women only made 57 cents per dollar earned by men in 1973 when this Department of Labor PSA was made, progress has stalled and we’re still far from closing the pay gap.

2. There is more than one Equal Pay Day
The wage gap is even greater for many women. To earn what white, non-Hispanic men earned in 2020, Asian American and Pacific Islander women had to work until March 9. Mothers won’t catch up until June 4 (compared with fathers, on average). For many women of color, Equal Pay Day falls later and later into the year. For Black women it is not until Aug. 3. For Native American women it is not until Sept. 8. Lastly, for Latinas, Equal Pay Day is more than 9 months into the year on Oct. 21.

3. Women earn less than men in nearly all occupations
You can see how women’s earnings compare with men’s in over 350 occupations using our interactive visualization tool. There are only a handful of occupations where women earn slightly more than their male counterparts, such as health care social workers.

4. Women earn less than their same race and ethnicity counterpart at every level of educational attainment
Compared with white men with the same education, Black and Latina women with only a bachelor’s degree have the largest gap at 65%, and Black women with advanced degrees earn 70% of what white men with advanced degrees earn. Educational attainment is not enough to close gender earnings gaps. In fact, most women with advanced degrees earn less than white men, on average, with only a bachelor’s degree.

5. The pandemic has set women’s labor force participation back more than 30 years
Unfortunately, the pandemic stalled gains made toward closing the pay gap, and layoffs and a lack of child care have forced many women out of the workforce entirely. In February 2021, women’s labor force participation rate was 55.8% – the same rate as April 1987. And women of color and those working in low-wage occupations have been the most impacted.

So what can we do achieve pay equity? There’s clearly a lot of work to be done, but it is possible to level the playing field for working women by increasing transparency around wages across the board, disrupting occupational segregation, expanding access to paid leave and child and elder care, and creating more good union jobs. Learn more about the Department of Labor’s data-driven efforts to promote equal pay – and how you can get involved – at dol.gov/EqualPay.

Statistics can be cold and impersonal, and they don't always tell the whole story - even if they're reporting on trends and patterns.

 

[David Young]

What you posted does not answer the question that I asked. It answers a different question, one I did not ask.

 

[Stevicus]

What you posted does not answer the question that I asked. It answers a different question, one I did not ask.

I'm not sure there is an answer to the specific question you asked, but we can try to get within the ballpark.

 

[Orbit]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

Just go to bls.gov and look at the data on gender and pay.

 

[Nakosis]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

I don't do exactly the same work as anyone else.
My work is based on my life experience and so is unique to me.
My pay has nothing to do with my gender but the work I am capable of performing.

My wife however gets paid more than me. She gets paid more than most men in her job because of many, many years of experience.
Her experience is in demand, not her gender.

 

[Kooky]

In which jobs are men paid more than women for doing absolutely exactly the same work?

I am not asking about jobs where men are paid more on average than women.
I am not asking about jobs where men and women do similar, but not 100% identical, jobs.
I am not asking about different things men and women spend their take-home pay on.
I am not asking for a sermon on feminism.

No job is 100% identical.

 

[Kooky]

Since the practice you refer to is against the law in most western countries, I presume the answer will be "none".

You would think so, but studies say otherwise.
The law, by the way, relies on individuals filing suits against their own employers - and yes, these suits do happen.

 

[David Young]

I could come up with quite a lot of ways in which the average man in a given profession does their job differently from the way the average woman in the same profession does it.

That would explain a whole host of examples of differences in average incomes between men and women.

However, I have yet to see an example of a job in the USA, the UK or Poland where the following sentence is true: "Men get paid more than women for doing exactly the same work."

 

[exchemist]

I could come up with quite a lot of ways in which the average man in a given profession does their job differently from the way the average woman in the same profession does it.

That would explain a whole host of examples of differences in average incomes between men and women.

However, I have yet to see an example of a job in the USA, the UK or Poland where the following sentence is true: "Men get paid more than women for doing exactly the same work."

Do you attach some significance to that? And why single out Poland?

 

[David Young]

I live in Poland and my first language is English, so those three countries are the ones whose policies in this area I am most familiar with.

The significance to what I said is that there are still people saying that something that does not exist does exist.

 

[Kooky]

However, I have yet to see an example of a job in the USA, the UK or Poland where the following sentence is true: "Men get paid more than women for doing exactly the same work."

Have you seen an example of one man getting paid more than another for doing the exact same work?

 

[exchemist]

I live in Poland and my first language is English, so those three countries are the ones whose policies in this area I am most familiar with.

The significance to what I said is that there are still people saying that something that does not exist does exist.

Do you have examples to share, or do you just mean dinner party chit-chat?

 

[David Young]

Here is just one example of the claim being made on a website which is still up:
https://www.ourvoicecountsforequality.com/what-is-it
The claim is made in the section entitled 'pay gap'.
I noticed that the author did not furnish the readers with an example.

 

[exchemist]

Here is just one example of the claim being made on a website which is still up:
https://www.ourvoicecountsforequality.com/what-is-it
The claim is made in the section entitled 'pay gap'.
I noticed that the author did not furnish the readers with an example.

I see what you mean. But this is just a home-made website designed by a 19yr old. Is that all there is?

 

[pearl]

Jan. 28, 2009 — -- Calling pay equity not a women's issue but a family issue, President Obama today signed a new bill seeking to end decades-long pay disparities between men and women.

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has stopped an Obama-era rule requiring large companies to report how much they pay workers by race and gender.
Trump Halted Obama's Equal Pay Rule. What it Means for Working Women (nbcnews.com)

 

[exchemist]

Jan. 28, 2009 — -- Calling pay equity not a women's issue but a family issue, President Obama today signed a new bill seeking to end decades-long pay disparities between men and women.

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has stopped an Obama-era rule requiring large companies to report how much they pay workers by race and gender.
Trump Halted Obama's Equal Pay Rule. What it Means for Working Women (nbcnews.com)

But that is not about different pay for the same work, as that is already illegal.

It is about what is now the real issue today (i.e. what @David Young doesn't want to talk about), viz. the inequality of opportunity in the workplace between the sexes.