That's it I'm officially done with Hillary

[Revoltingest]

False equivalency is when you claim both do the same thing but one does it openly and consistently and the other you have to put together an assemblage of statements that could be bigoted if you stretch far enough.
I spent a bit of time digging around for examples of her so called bigotry and the only story I found that gave examples offered up her statements about supporting Israel.

One who is on her side will naturally find little wrong with her.

The irony here is knee deep as virtually everyone on both sides of the aisle have said they support Israel. It's necessary these days in this political climate. So she didn't actually say anything bigoted, but she is guilty by association with a country that virtually everyone in Washington is associated with..

The flavors of support for Israel by both of them bother me, but only Hilda has openly threatened to "obliterate" Iran.
This is a horribly clueless & counter-productive promise during an attempt to get them to de-nuke.
Is a "false equivalency" because I compare the two?
But this wasn't the issue we were discussing though.

To compare things which have both similarities & differences in degrees, is necessary to understanding them & their potential effects in office.
We might disagree about who is worse, but tis hubris to claim that one's own is so far superior that comparison is illogical.
I can understand that Hillary's supporters are less than thrilled with her.
This makes it particularly difficult for them to face comparisons.
So many lefties disallow comparisons under the oft misapplied banner of "false equivalence".
The old "false false equivalence" informal logical fallacy.
This won't fly.

If I am wrong, feel free to cite examples.

I've often cited examples of her bigotry.
My favorite was even my signature for a while.
Don't remember any of them?

 

[Revoltingest]

And this is the disingenuous tactic by some on the right who all too often use the exceptions to the rule to be supposedly be the rule general rule itself. The example I often cite to demonstrate this is that it's like saying that a grape is the same as a bowling ball because both of them are round.

And many lefties are trained to oppose any comparisons which make their candidate look bad.
You offer a representative example above.
Trump & Hilda both have many problems, & reasonable people are finding that it's a difficult decision to decide between them.
But you portray them as so outrageously different....as a grape & a bowling ball.
There's no examination of records, no weighting of competing faults & merits......
Just a declaration of such great difference that to even consider a comparison is dishonest.
Specious, specious specious.

 

[Underhill]

One who is on her side will naturally find little wrong with her.

The flavors of support for Israel by both of them bother me, but only Hilda has openly threatened to "obliterate" Iran.
This is a horribly clueless & counter-productive promise during an attempt to get them to de-nuke.
Is a "false equivalency" because I compare the two?
But this wasn't the issue we were discussing though.

Yeah, but as you have pointed out to me, it is all about context. In the context of what she said, she was spot on.

To compare things which have both similarities & differences in degrees, is necessary to understanding them & their potential effects in office.
We might disagree about who is worse, but tis hubris to claim that one's own is so far superior that comparison is illogical.
I can understand that Hillary's supporters are less than thrilled with her.
This makes it particularly difficult for them to face comparisons.
So many lefties disallow comparisons under the oft misapplied banner of "false equivalence".
The old "false false equivalence" informal logical fallacy.
This won't fly.

I've often cited examples of her bigotry.
My favorite was even my signature for a while.
Don't remember any of them?

Sure. Except if you remember, I said she was right in the context of her intent. Bigotry is all about the motivations... the intent. Your example was one where she said something that was very close to the truth, but one or two words take it from inspirational to a 'what the...' moment. Its called a mistake. We all make them.

Pulling a singular misspoken quote and trying to equate it with a candidate isn't right.

On the other hand, Trump has a long history on this front. One does not need to mine one or two choice phrases, there are dozens of examples readily available.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, but as you have pointed out to me, it is all about context. In the context of what she said, she was spot on.

Our disagreement about the significance of this & other Hillary statements
illustrates different values & goals we'd like to see our candidates effect.
You might see false equivalency in comparing Hilda to Donald because you
find her so much better than he is. But this wrong not only the reasons I
gave earlier, but also because I judge her to be likely much worse than he.

Sure. Except if you remember, I said she was right in the context of her intent. Bigotry is all about the motivations... the intent. Your example was one where she said something that was very close to the truth, but one or two words take it from inspirational to a 'what the...' moment. Its called a mistake. We all make them.

There is no "truth" to be had in value judgements.
There is only agreement or disagreement.
You agree with her. I find her values & views heinous.

Pulling a singular misspoken quote and trying to equate it with a candidate isn't right.

You defend her as not meaning what she said?
Elaboration?

On the other hand, Trump has a long history on this front. One does not need to mine one or two choice phrases, there are dozens of examples readily available.

They both have long histories.
And these provide reasons I'll vote for him instead of her.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Well - having watched that "debate" lol they had last night - I have to say guys - you Americans are royally FKD

Isnt there some way you could quickly change the rules here to stop EITHER of those idiots getting into power..?..PLEASE - all of you - juts dont vote at all - dont pick ANY of them as they are - well - idiots...

Get a huge petitiion together - and go tell your gments that you refuse to play their game until they give you some CREADABLE and RESPECTFUL people to choose from.. I mean it - you guys are screwed here - you have choice A - a woman who simply doesnt know her *** from her elbow - or choice 2 - a man who obviously hates everybody and sees the whole world as somehow inferior and damaging to "great America"...lol.....WOW - and these are going to become major world players in their turn...wow - we are ALL screwed...

Please America - just dont put EITHER of them two in power - PLEASE...Trump - certainly NOT - cant even handle simple basic questions - neither said anyhting substantial though - just personal and well - degrading to them and to your political system as a whole...You guys really do need a THIRD party - urgently Id say..

 

[Maponos]

Except for one important detail. She didn't do that. Not that such a basic and well evidenced fact will stop people from repeating this. Especially the ones looking for a reason to claim that Hillary is just as bad as Trump, when she isn't.
Tom

I mean she did, on video, but okay.

 

[Underhill]

Our disagreement about the significance of this & other Hillary statements
illustrates different values & goals we'd like to see our candidates effect.
You might see false equivalency in comparing Hilda to Donald because you
find her so much better than he is. But this wrong not only the reasons I
gave earlier, but also because I judge her to be likely much worse than he.

There is no "truth" to be had in value judgements.
There is only agreement or disagreement.
You agree with her. I find her values & views heinous.

You defend her as not meaning what she said?
Elaboration?

They both have long histories.
And these provide reasons I'll vote for him instead of her.

We've discussed this before. Her statement you quoted in your signature for months was a grand example. She meant mothers and daughters are among the biggest victims of war. She has said this before. But once she was quoted saying they were 'the biggest victims of war' and you have your 'what the...' moment.

 

[Revoltingest]

We've discussed this before. Her statement you quoted in your signature for months was a grand example. She meant mothers and daughters are among the biggest victims of war. She has said this before. But once she was quoted saying they were 'the biggest victims of war' and you have your 'what the...' moment.

I'm skeptical of this being a mere slip of the tongue.
Unlike Donald, she is careful & scripted.
And when I brought up the quote here,
fans rushed to agree with her actual language.

 

[Underhill]

I'm skeptical of this being a mere slip of the tongue.
Unlike Donald, she is careful & scripted.
And when I brought up the quote here,
fans rushed to agree with her actual language.

Well, it is making a valid point. We hear in the media about the dead and wounded and forget completely about the families at home. It's a different kind of victim but her point is valid, even if you disagree with what was actually said.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Trump used his final statement to mention a twitter argument with Rosie O'donnell...
#FTW #AllTheClass #WhatIsWrongWithUs

 

[jeager106]

Hi Folks...

Surely you all realise by now - ITS ALL A SHAM !!!!

Neither Trump nor Clinton will ACTUALLY be IN POWER - they will be FIGUREHEADS - and those behind the scenes will still keep and wield that power as they always have...There is a "secret government" basically that presents you with BOTH candidates of course for it is their show start to finish - not yours - THEY are in charge and THEY will decide the outcome - it doesnt matter WHO wins eventually of course as those behind the scenes are puppet master to BOTH camps and are just pulling the strings as they see fit and society is followiing their lead always...

Oh joy!
Another condemning expert post by someone that doesn't even live in the U.S.A.
So many people that don't live in the U.S. just love U.S.A. bashing.
The Illuminati really runs the world.
Everybody knows that.
They are responsible for the W.T.C., and attacks in Miami and France just to make Islam
look bad.

Now post why your gov'ment won't trust it's own with large kitchen knives.
Why it takes a special permit to own a bee bee gun.
There are real reasons why us in the "colonies" fought the Brits back across the great pond.
Brits got shot out of every "colony" they ever raped.
The Brits of that period were the ultimate racists.
Science and religion came together to help shape the attitudes of the British and Europeans towards the rest of the world, whose inhabitants were increasingly regarded as socially inferior and spiritually ignorant.
When the Brits were getting whupped but good prior to America's entry into WWII
Churchill rejoiced when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor knowing isolationist
American must join the war and ultimately save British butts..
Else Brits would be saying Hail Hitler today.
google some history and be enlightened.
While bashing America thank an American for your freedom.
My father and three uncles fought and bled to ensure your freedom.
All four told stories of how badly they were treated by the Brits prior to D-day.
"Americans. Over paid, over sexed and over here" was the "battle" cry.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jaeger; WHAT pray tell has that "history lesson" even got to do with either of these candidates or THIS discussion..??.

Lets see - oh - first I should rephrase - and say "innacurate hstory lesson" as it didnt quite go down that way - but hey - I understand youre frustration here - if I was American then man I would prob be frustrated too...lol...

So - despite your rant - I have to burst your bubble Im afraid - and just tell you plainly as an "outsider" lol - without ANY BIAS AT ALL - I tell you plain America AINT that great nation you paint it to be - indeed - one of the most corrupt gments in the world today - lies to you (all) and to us too - ALL the time !!

And yer my gment not so far behind in the corruption game and is usually somewhat of a "puppet" following your lead - but at least here we seem to be a bit more sensible than you lot with some of your ridiculous laws...Its true - we cant be trusted with guns either - or big knives out in the street for that matter - why not..?...Because it IS a violent world - and arming the people only ADDS to that violence, doesnt defeat it at all - just makes it much MUCH worse...At least my gment has some foresight when it comes to such issues I guess..lol..

It doesnt take any special permit to own a bb gun - I own two - replicas - and I tell you this plain too - they are every bit as affective for self defense as your arsenal you brag about - start waving them in public and people soon leave you alone - just as much a detterant as the real deal - except of course "killiing the enemy" is not MY intent - just a warning will do - violence should always be the LAST course after all - not the preffered first choice ever

yes we had a colonial war - big deal - neither you nor I was there was we - so I ask again - why is it even relevant here..??..And as to "raping countries" - wasnt that YOU GUYS and what you all did to the TRUE native Americans..?...cant blame Brits for YOUR kinfolk ancestoral behaviour no matter how you try...lol...it was out of your(s) - and our hands....wasnt it..??..Again irrelevant HERE and now..

Now the Brits of THAT period may well have been the ultimate racists - I AGREE - we were quite despicable for a long while - BUT - WE HERE are dealing with modern Americans not colonial Brits..lol...and if a comparison is to be made - then modern America is the ultimate "warmonger" starting all manne rof wars all over the place to grow your own military based economy always - and your own personal views regarding "gun culture" and repeatedly expressed need for such violence just reflect that attitude ideally.. You are indeed an American military "poster boy" from the sounds of things - but look - that is nothing to be overly proud of...

WW2 ..??...lol....WE stood up did what was right and proper - protected the innocents right from the get go - you lot..?...declared neutrality, said it was someone elses problem at first - didnt you..?..Only when you got dragged in yoursleves byt he Japs did you "man up" and finally help out...

As for Americans saving Brits butts - sorry mate - but thats a huge part of the American problem right there - ARROGANT - the world out here doesnt actually behave the way you think it does - not back then - and not now either...America didnt save anybodies butt mate - it eventually joined in with what turned out to be a near global resistance to an evil regime - it was a major player for sure along with several other major players the UK among them as your ALLIES not competitors...lol.. but you lot were nowhere near as essential as you arrogantly believed - and nowhere near the "hero status" you repeatedly claim....

Fact that you NEED to claim such status repeatedly and so loudly and the fact that the rest of the world does not give you that adulation as claimed anyway - SHOULD tell you the rest of the world does not actually agree or see it the same way you do - lol - hence you can claim that hero status as much as you need - still, wont ever make it actual legitimate truth will it..?..lol..only in the arrogant minds of certain Americans is that ever truth...lol...out in the real world - you were just one nation among a coalition of such nations and no more important or vital than any other..

Thank an American for MY freedom..?.. I thank my own mortal father first, and my own uncles of course - for ALONGSIDE your kin my kin bled and died for the same cause - thank an American - arrogant fool - WISE UP - thank them ALL every man and woman of every nation...Your arrogance - really quite astounding...

Over sexed over paid over here and full of themselves from the sound of things - THAT is why we treated you as you deserved - arrogance - making out your the "hero savious" even back then same as you try now lol - come here with that attitude and obvious bs agenda of cultural oneupmanship as you did - as you do - and what do you expect..?..

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh joy!
Another condemning expert post by someone that doesn't even live in the U.S.A.
So many people that don't live in the U.S. just love U.S.A. bashing.
The Illuminati really runs the world.
Everybody knows that.
They are responsible for the W.T.C., and attacks in Miami and France just to make Islam
look bad.

Now post why your gov'ment won't trust it's own with large kitchen knives.
Why it takes a special permit to own a bee bee gun.
There are real reasons why us in the "colonies" fought the Brits back across the great pond.
Brits got shot out of every "colony" they ever raped.
The Brits of that period were the ultimate racists.
Science and religion came together to help shape the attitudes of the British and Europeans towards the rest of the world, whose inhabitants were increasingly regarded as socially inferior and spiritually ignorant.
When the Brits were getting whupped but good prior to America's entry into WWII
Churchill rejoiced when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor knowing isolationist
American must join the war and ultimately save British butts..
Else Brits would be saying Hail Hitler today.
google some history and be enlightened.
While bashing America thank an American for your freedom.
My father and three uncles fought and bled to ensure your freedom.
All four told stories of how badly they were treated by the Brits prior to D-day.
"Americans. Over paid, over sexed and over here" was the "battle" cry.

Let's not Brit bash too much.
After all, they did give us warm beer.
(Lucas Electric makes their fridges.)

 

[jeager106]

Let's not Brit bash too much.
After all, they did give us warm beer.
(Lucas Electric makes their fridges.)

O.K.
I yield to the common sense nation that won't trust it's people with sharp instruments.

I recall when the Brits were flat beaten and lost 80% material and 20% men at Dunkirk.
The Brits were facing an invasion by the Nazi's that they couldn't defend
Churchill addressed the Brits saying "we shall fight them in the cities, fight them in the hills........................
Then turned to an aid and remarked "with beer bottles as we have no weapons" or words to that
effect.
Were it not for the R.A.F. the Brits would have been saying "Hail Hitler".

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Were it not for the R.A.F. the Brits would have been saying "Hail Hitler".

Indeed - we were not adequately prepared for such a war Folks just as he admonishes - and yet we manned up anyway rolled the sleeves up and had at it - its the Brits way..

Were it not for the RAF we be saying heil Hitler..?...Hang on - make your mind up mate - earlier you claimed that for yourselves and said it was America that saved us..lol.. whats that all about really..??..

So yer THANK FK for the RAF - the REAL heroes - and you wont be hearing them boast about it as they are REAL heroes - just did what was expected of them no fuss needed

 

[oldbadger]

Oh joy!
Another condemning expert post by someone that doesn't even live in the U.S.A.
So many people that don't live in the U.S. just love U.S.A. bashing.
The Illuminati really runs the world.
Everybody knows that.
They are responsible for the W.T.C., and attacks in Miami and France just to make Islam
look bad.

Now post why your gov'ment won't trust it's own with large kitchen knives.
Why it takes a special permit to own a bee bee gun.
There are real reasons why us in the "colonies" fought the Brits back across the great pond.
Brits got shot out of every "colony" they ever raped.
The Brits of that period were the ultimate racists.
Science and religion came together to help shape the attitudes of the British and Europeans towards the rest of the world, whose inhabitants were increasingly regarded as socially inferior and spiritually ignorant.
When the Brits were getting whupped but good prior to America's entry into WWII
Churchill rejoiced when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor knowing isolationist
American must join the war and ultimately save British butts..
Else Brits would be saying Hail Hitler today.
google some history and be enlightened.
While bashing America thank an American for your freedom.
My father and three uncles fought and bled to ensure your freedom.
All four told stories of how badly they were treated by the Brits prior to D-day.
"Americans. Over paid, over sexed and over here" was the "battle" cry.

Jeager....... that was another rant..... just there.

Now...... One deep breath...... let it out, slowly.
Not that friggin' slowly! You'll have a relapse!

Again...... deep breath........ think of something you really really like......
That was wicked! And unhelpful!

Just three deep breaths........ release........ relax.....

 

[oldbadger]

Hi Folks..

Jaeger; WHAT pray tell has that "history lesson" even got to do with either of these candidates or THIS discussion..??.
................................................

Gooooo oonnnnnn my son!
You tell 'em.

....... and you missed the important fact that they don't even know which side of the road to drive on!
......... totally hopeless, crowd, them lot!

 

[jeager106]

Jeager....... that was another rant..... just there.

Now...... One deep breath...... let it out, slowly.
Not that friggin' slowly! You'll have a relapse!

Again...... deep breath........ think of something you really really like......
That was wicked! And unhelpful!

Just three deep breaths........ release........ relax.....

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I'm all better now.

 

[jeager106]

Hilary or Trump?
We is in deep kimchi this go 'round me thinks.
Either way it's boding bad for us peons.
Still the house and senate might hold the line between politics and insanity.

 

[metis]

Hilary or Trump?
We is in deep kimchi this go 'round me thinks.
Either way it's boding bad for us peons.
Still the house and senate might hold the line between politics and insanity.

Oh, we have a House and a Senate? Since when?