The Alignment of the Christian God

[Robert.Evans]

I would say that YHVH taken literally is Lawful Evil.

Yhvh can be many things though, not just the one god/God you might think.

 

[Sonofason]

It seems to me that you obey him simply becuase he is the most powerful in you eyes.

So would you obey Satan if he was the most powerful?

Then you probably ought not speculate so much bedcause you've got it wrong. Satan will never and could never be God. Although he is a god of many.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Then you probably ought not speculate so much bedcause you've got it wrong. Satan will never and could never be God. Although he is a god of many.

But if Satan was God, would he deserve worship?

Basically, this is the question is "is something good simply because God does it"? Like, if God said murder was good, would that become true simply because good = God? You do see this in the Bible. God asks a man to burn his daughter alive, and he actually follows thru. This is separate from the Isaac story.

 

[Sonofason]

But if Satan was God, would he deserve worship?

Basically, this is the question is "is something good simply because God does it"? Like, if God said murder was good, would that become true simply because good = God? You do see this in the Bible. God asks a man to burn his daughter alive, and he actually follows thru. This is separate from the Isaac story.

I know God, at least to some degree, and I don't need to speculate over what He might be, or what He could be. You do not know Him, and so all you have is speculation.

 

[Sonofason]

But if Satan was God, would he deserve worship?

Basically, this is the question is "is something good simply because God does it"? Like, if God said murder was good, would that become true simply because good = God? You do see this in the Bible. God asks a man to burn his daughter alive, and he actually follows thru. This is separate from the Isaac story.

First of all, God did not ask Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter. God didn't ask for any sacrifice at all. Jephthah was being a stupid man trying to make a stupid deal with God. And he paid dearly for being so stupid. Perhaps you can read it again, in context, and you will see that Jephthah did indeed sacrifice his daughter as he promised to God He would. But God never asked for that. It was purely the doings of a sinful man. But one thing we can say about Jephthah, he was a man of his word.



29Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon. 30And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, 31Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. 32So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands. 33And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.

34And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. 35And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. 36And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon. 37And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows. 38And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains. 39And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel, 40That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year. (Judges 11:29-40)

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

I know God, at least to some degree, and I don't need to speculate over what He might be, or what He could be. You do not know Him, and so all you have is speculation.

I know who God is portrayed as in much of the Bible. For one thing, he thinks (according to some) that people like me ("men who lay with men") deserve to be put to death (Leviticus 20:13). For another, he has ordered genocide (1 Samuel 15:3) and sexual slavery (Deuteronomy 20:14). Do you believe that the Bible is a unified, infallible work?

First of all, God did not ask Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter. God didn't ask for any sacrifice at all. Jephthah was being a stupid man trying to make a stupid deal with God. And he paid dearly for being so stupid. Perhaps you can read it again, in context, and you will see that Jephthah did indeed sacrifice his daughter as he promised to God He would. But God never asked for that. It was purely the doings of a sinful man.

Then why did God not tell him not to do it, as he did with Abraham?

 

[Sonofason]

I know who God is portrayed as in much of the Bible. For one thing, he thinks (according to some) that people like me ("men who lay with men") deserve to be put to death (Leviticus 20:13). For another, he has ordered genocide (1 Samuel 15:3) and sexual slavery (Deuteronomy 20:14). Do you believe that the Bible is a unified, infallible work?



Then why did God not tell him not to do it, as he did with Abraham?

I believe every single word in the Bible.
Well wait a second. The Bible includes an abundance of stories of fallible men. So how could I say there is nothing fallible to be found in the Bible?

I believe the Bible is accurate and true. I believe the authors wrote what they wrote in all honesty and truth.

I learned a great many valuable lessons from those stories...Don't cheat on your wife. And don't engage in homosexuality. Don't steal. Don't lie. Respect your parents. Obey God. etc...

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Well, I respect that you don't believe the Bible to be infallible. A lot of vocal Christians think that every word of the Bible is perfect and divine.

I would also say that it's ridiculous on its face to say that "don't engage in homosexuality" is a "valuable lesson". That notion is about is valid as the idea that "race mixing" is wrong, and it's been comparably horrid in its effect on humanity.

 

[Unification]

I believe "belief" and "heart" are two different functions in the brain.

I believe you will find flesh and blood has wicked abstract thoughts emotions and knowledge.

I believe that is too simple because the brain is very specialized earth. Also one will not get any thinking from a pile of dirt.

I believe you are in error on this and also have no proof.

The heart has brain cells and a mind of its own also. So does the "belly or gut."

You're correct, flesh and blood does have wicked abstract thoughts, emotions, and knowledge but for me I would not murder my own flesh and blood... I would murder certain thoughts, emotions, and knowledge.

It's impossible to love your enemy and forgive them while murdering them at the same time. It's not them that needs murdered, it's the certain thoughts, emotions, and knowledge that is wicked. I'll never belief or want to know a "God" that transgresses all of "his" own laws that mankind has made literal.

The brain is very specialized earth, as well as the entire human body and it's not the brain that thinks, plans, organizes, or is conscious...it's the energy or "spirit" that does, the power that resides within the blood/water/fluids of the body.

For one who uses "belief" and "believe" a lot, the word "proof" may not be beneficial for you to use on another.

 

[Muffled]

The heart has brain cells and a mind of its own also. So does the "belly or gut."

You're correct, flesh and blood does have wicked abstract thoughts, emotions, and knowledge but for me I would not murder my own flesh and blood... I would murder certain thoughts, emotions, and knowledge.

It's impossible to love your enemy and forgive them while murdering them at the same time. It's not them that needs murdered, it's the certain thoughts, emotions, and knowledge that is wicked. I'll never belief or want to know a "God" that transgresses all of "his" own laws that mankind has made literal.

The brain is very specialized earth, as well as the entire human body and it's not the brain that thinks, plans, organizes, or is conscious...it's the energy or "spirit" that does, the power that resides within the blood/water/fluids of the body.

For one who uses "belief" and "believe" a lot, the word "proof" may not be beneficial for you to use on another.

I believe laws were made for man not for God. He can do what He wants because He holds all the power in the universe and all the wisdom to use it properly.

I believe this is not true.

I believe that logic and evidence have their place in founding beliefs. I believe that believing something without evidence is superstition. Also RF rules say that nothing can be known only believed.
I tend to be authoritative because I speak the words God puts in my mouth but RF management says that it is only what I believe.

 

[Aset's Flames]

Mein Khamf is an autobiography.

I was referring to the "bible" having the same exact meanings as the "Quran" and "Sutra's" etc. and even the texts you use for "Asset." They all mean the same things.

Ha, the ignorant arrogance.

Aset has no holy text!

 

[Aset's Flames]

Just as combining the same exact stuff into one such as:

A "brahman" (Abraham) will sacrifice a son(thought) but it's not the human sacrificing/destroying the thought... It's the flame(energy) of "Asset" that destroys the thought. The flaming/energetic "sword" in between the two cerebrum.

It appears that your two hippocampi horns and cerebrum wings and dendrites have knowledge of "God/Asset" being an egotistical deity tyrant that murders literal children as opposed to a consuming energy that destroys certain thoughts, emotions, and knowledge.

Your knowledge of what the bible all must mean is a thicket of thorns in your memory corrupting your garden. You should sacrifice that thought, or ask "Asset's" flames(energy) to help you.

Comparing Aset to Yahweh is like comparing a loving mother to a ruthless tyrant.

And I will not stand for it.

Those are not horns, they are the tips of a throne representing her regality and reminding us that she once had dominian over all.

The wings represent transdence as she transcendes Matter, Energy, and Spirit. She also wishes for humans to ascend to Asetians and for Asetians to transcend lifetimes and normal human limits.

Your ingnorant excuse for a philsophy is based on false equivalency.

To compare Aset with such a poor peice of fantasy literature is to compare the touch of a mother's hand to a book about a father's rod.

This is the last I will speak to you until I can cleanse this rage that your ignorant statements have produced.

 

[Unification]

Ha, the ignorant arrogance.

Aset has no holy text!

There is no such thing as "holy" text.

Perhaps, "whole-minded" written text.

"holy" is your own additive and assumption.

 

[Unification]

Comparing Aset to Yahweh is like comparing a loving mother to a ruthless tyrant.

And I will not stand for it.

Those are not horns, they are the tips of a throne representing her regality and reminding us that she once had dominian over all.

The wings represent transdence as she transcendes Matter, Energy, and Spirit. She also wishes for humans to ascend to Asetians and for Asetians to transcend lifetimes and normal human limits.

Your ingnorant excuse for a philsophy is based on false equivalency.

To compare Aset with such a poor peice of fantasy literature is to compare the touch of a mother's hand to a book about a father's rod.

This is the last I will speak to you until I can cleanse this rage that your ignorant statements have produced.

For me, Yah Weh means to breathe in and breathe out... not a supernatural egotistical deity or anything exoteric as you mentally imagine and assume all others to believe. That is the ignorance, your mass emotional assumptions on everyone. You could ask "Asset" to destroy and murder those abstract ideas, thoughts, and assumptions running wild in your mind with fire. That's right though, it would be tyranny to murder anything abstract. All thoughts, emotions, and knowledge are loving and wonderful.

Energy, matter, and "spirit" have no he or she literal gender. Perhaps opposite polarities such as maleositive and female:negative.

Father, Mother, he, she, man, woman, son, daughter, child are not literal genders or literal people.

It's very dogmatic to see things symbolically and as representation of something on YOUR terms only, as if anything in the bible or any other text isn't a symbol or representation of something too.

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Now this is my first post on this site and I'm not really looking for arguments or shooting down ideas, but I want to learn as I go through this spiritual journey. I have recently converted from Catholicism to Wicca. I have had several questions that concern all different denominations of Christianity, but I'll start with this simple one.

During my conversion, I found out 'Sin' isn't exactly what I thought it was since I was a kid. I thought Sin was all that was considered 'evil', but I realized that it is actually anything that goes against the Commandments or "The Lord's word". It may consider what is evil, such as killing and stealing, but in the Bible, it elaborates on many other things that don't seem to be considered evil such as tattoos or wGod of Abraham had committed serious and tragic acts such as the flood, but when I was a kid, I didn't think much of it; thought simply that the world was full of evil humans and he needed to reset it. But I soon realized that the world's animals had perished as well, and I doubt animals can be considered evil. Then there was the story of Job. When I read through that story, I came to realize that maybe God isn't actually considered good, he had tormented a faithful follower for a bet with Satan. He had committed acts that people would consider evil, but he is praised as a God of good. He had answered prayers and blessed people, yes, but I believe only his followers, as for anyone who didn't believe in him, they didn't get the same treatment, sometimes worse.

Jesus has always been a beacon of good and hope, and I agree, he had not committed any dark or cruel acts while he lived. But he differs from his father. They may be one and the same to most or all Christians, but to me they both differ heavily in choices. While his father would punish heavily, Jesus would forgive and ask others to love.

Lastly, I had believed access to heaven was simply be a good person in life, but right before moments of questioning my faith, I came to realize it's "Not enough" as most or all Christians would say. "Believe that Jesus died for our sins, pray for forgiveness" and you will get into heaven. But that would mean a ruthless killer will a murder streak would have a better chance of getting into heaven than a pure hearted atheist who had done little to no wrong in life.

A good alignment isn't held higher than belief. The killer would have a good chance in access to the 'Kingdom' if he asks for forgiveness and praises Jesus' name right before death. But why? If a righteous heart isn't as important as believing in the deity, then is Abraham's God truly good?

In Dungeons and Dragons, there's a list of fictional Gods and Goddesses with their alignment to the side (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral). I would have to say that Abraham's God is possibly Lawful Neutral at best. Some people actually state that he is evil. Some say he's actually Satan, deceiving the Christians. There's a lot of speculation going on because of these thoughts.

Satan is not God. He wishes he was like the Most High but he's the opposite.

The animals in the flood belong to God. Can He not do what He wants with what is His?

Job was being tested. God can test our faith to see if we really love Him or material wealth or others more.

A murderer knew he was doing wrong. A pure hearted atheist didn't'. "The servant who does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving of punishment will be beaten with few blows." Luke 12:48

 

[NathanShepard8888]

If you accept that the bible is not infallible then why do you believe that Yeshua (better known as Jesus) did the miracles reported in it? There are no other documents report in his miracles outside of these works.

There is actually more documentation of Elvis sightings after Elvis's death then there are reports of Yeshua's miracles.

The Oldest Views and Literary Data on the External Appearance of Jesus


The Description of Publius Lentullus

The following was taken from a manuscript in the possession of Lord Kelly, and in his library, and was copied from an original letter of Publius Lentullus at Rome. It being the usual custom of Roman Governors to advertise the Senate and people of such material things as happened in their provinces in the days of Tiberius Caesar, Publius Lentullus, President of Judea, wrote the following epistle to the Senate concerning the Nazarene called Jesus.

"There appeared in these our days a man, of the Jewish Nation, of great virtue, named Yeshua[Jesus], who is yet living among us, and of the Gentiles is accepted for a Prophet of truth, but His own disciples call Him the Son of God- He raiseth the dead and cureth all manner of diseases. A man of stature somewhat tall, and comely, with very reverent countenance, such as the beholders may both love and fear, his hair of (the colour of) the chestnut, full ripe, plain to His ears, whence downwards it is more orient and curling and wavering about His shoulders. In the midst of His head is a seam or partition in His hair, after the manner of theNazarenes. His forehead plain and very delicate; His face without spot or wrinkle, beautified with a lovely red; His nose and mouth so formed as nothing can be reprehended; His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked; His look innocent and mature; His eyes grey, clear, and quick- In reproving hypocrisy He is terrible; in admonishing, courteous and fair spoken; pleasant in conversation, mixed with gravity. It cannot be remembered that any have seen Him Laugh, but many have seen Him Weep. In proportion of body, most excellent; His hands and arms delicate to behold. In speaking, very temperate, modest, and wise. A man, for His singular beauty, surpassing the children of men"

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Please show me where it says the Gentiles do not.

And if he did not would that not mean that your deity is racist?

Well if you had read the bible you'd know this.
Leviticus 26:46 - "These are the decrees, the laws and the regulations that the LORD established at Mount Sinai between Himself and the Israelites through Moses."

If you want more detail you can read Acts 15:7-11

And it's got nothing to do with race.

You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God Leviticus 24:22

 

[Thana]

You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God Leviticus 24:22

I'm pretty sure Rosends already pointed out to you why that verse doesn't mean what you think it does in your thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/should-christians-follow-the-law.182408/

 

[NathanShepard8888]

Of course God was not only speaking with the Israelites those forty years in the desert. There were Egyptian converts traveling with them.

 

[outhouse]

Of course God was not only speaking with the Israelites those forty years in the desert. There were Egyptian converts traveling with them.

Sorry, that did not happen. The exodus is a myth by all academic standards.