The Allure of Paganism — Clearing up Some Misconceptions and Stereotypes

[Rick O'Shez]

The question of lineages is disputed — some claim a continuing tradition in parts of Greece and Italy — but lack of texts? With all the discussions of religion in the Greek philosophers and essayists, the references to it in poets and dramatists, the collections of hymns and prayers, etc, I'm knee-deep in them!

This is a little vague. I'd be interested to hear more specific details about how far back these lineages in Greece and Italy are supposed to go, and which sects they involve. And can you give some examples of ancients texts available today which were written by Pagans for Pagans? Can you provide some on-line references to the source material?

 

[Desert Snake]

No. Too mundane. Such words are good for speaking in the vernacular of psychology, but they're terrible for effectively communicating the full depth of our actual experiences.

Are you talking about this in an /atheist context, //as the OP is?

 

[Riverwolf]

Are you talking about this in an /atheist context, //as the OP is?

Neither. I'm speaking generally. Whether from an atheistic or theistic perspective, mythological vernacular is far more effective at concisely communicating the full experience, than psychological vernacular.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

This is a little vague. I'd be interested to hear more specific details about how far back these lineages in Greece and Italy are supposed to go, and which sects they involve. And can you give some examples of ancients texts available today which were written by Pagans for Pagans? Can you provide some on-line references to the source material?

There's an interview with a Italian-American in W. D. Wilkerson's Walking with the Gods who was raised pagan; the family came from a village in Abruzzo and he was told that many there practiced paganism instead of or as well as Christianity. The Orphics claim a continuing tradition in Greece, but I know nothing of the evidence. Certainly there were individual Greeks throughout history who were secret pagans — famously Leo the Philosopher (9th century), John Italus (11th century), George Gemistus Pletho (15th century) — but whether they'd converted themselves from their studies or been raised as such we don't know.

Now really! Are you telling me that you can't do a web search for ancient Greek literature in translation? Or are you just too busy posting...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Now really! Are you telling me that you can't do a web search for ancient Greek literature in translation? Or are you just too busy posting...

I was asking for references to ancient Pagan texts. Texts written by Pagans for Pagans.

Like Christians have the Bible, Muslims have the Quran, Hindus have the Vedas, Buddhists have the suttas, and so on.
Is there an equivalent body of ancient texts for Paganism?

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

Yes. For Hellenism, check out the Homeric Hymns or Hesiod's Theogony.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I was asking for references to ancient Pagan texts. Texts written by Pagans for Pagans. Like Christians have the Bible, Muslims have the Quran, Hindus have the Vedas, Buddhists have the suttas, and so on.
Is there an equivalent body of ancient texts for Paganism?

Ah, what you wanted was pagan scripture. The answer is that pagan religions do not have scriptures: Hesiod and Homer are not the same as the Bible or the Quran — they're just literature containing myths. No-one is required to accept them, still less take them literally as Muslims do the Quran.

As has often been pointed out, secondary religions are about orthodoxy — believing the right things — but primary, pagan religions are about orthopraxy — doing the right things. Hinduism is an exception (as in other matters, too) because the Vedas became a test used in the long struggle against the Jains and Buddhists in Antiquity: does he accept the Vedas? If not, beware — he's no true Hindu.

 

[Riverwolf]

I was asking for references to ancient Pagan texts. Texts written by Pagans for Pagans.

Like Christians have the Bible, Muslims have the Quran, Hindus have the Vedas, Buddhists have the suttas, and so on.
Is there an equivalent body of ancient texts for Paganism?

Well, regarding those of us who are trying to revive the Old Ways of Northern Europe, we're less interested in reading our religion, than we are in singing it.

Pre-Christian traditions, in Europe, anyway, are largely oral traditions, as well as living traditions; that is, constantly changing and adapting with the times.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Well, regarding those of us who are trying to revive the Old Ways of Northern Europe, we're less interested in reading our religion, than we are in singing it.

Pre-Christian traditions, in Europe, anyway, are largely oral traditions, as well as living traditions; that is, constantly changing and adapting with the times.

Most neo-pagan religions are not founded on or are beholden to ancient text or nessecarly the beliefs of the classical versions.

 

[Riverwolf]

Most neo-pagan religions are not founded on or are beholden to ancient text or nessecarly the beliefs of the classical versions.

Ah, yes. In regards to the pre-Christian European traditions, I should have said they "were" living traditions, not "are". Thanks for drawing attention to that.

You are, of course, correct. Again, "classical" usually means "Greco-Roman", and doesn't typically refer to Northern European cultures (i.e., Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Finno-Uralic, etc.), but the point still remains with them, far stronger, in fact.

I'm an Anglo-Saxon(esque) Heathen, but I think I can be pretty safe in saying that my own practices would be largely unrecognizable to an actual pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon. Then again, so would this world.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Most neo-pagan religions are not founded on or are beholden to ancient text or nessecarly the beliefs of the classical versions.

Which is why I don't identify as a neo-pagan. My choice of household gods (Hestia, Hekate, Asklepios, and Tyche) would be instantly familiar to a Greek of the Roman period. The hymns I sing are translated from Greek, my choice of lilies and chrysanthemums as an offering to Hera and Zeus at last week's Gamelia was a traditional offering on the traditional day, and so forth.