Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Insurrection. Not coup. Lol
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The American Conservative: GOP Censured Free Thought, Conscience
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Well except leftists lol
The Democrats were only interested in the views of Republicans that wanted the events of January 6th investigated. All five of McCarthy's nominees and about 95% of all House Republicans voted against there being an investigation. They were inappropriate to put on a committee dedicated to doing just that.
Agree. However, I should note that the interests of the Republican party are antithetical to core American values. The Democrats were uninterested in the input of people who support insurrection and who would overturn fair elections. That's what Putin would do. Apart from a very small minority of them, the Republicans have moved so far right that they are unfit to participate in the process.
It's interesting to see how many Republicans support a dictator (Putin) and Russia over the democratic Ukraine. These people do not represent American values, and are properly excluded from governance to the greatest extent possible by those who do.
They were censured because they were out of lockstep with the bulk of the Republican party. Also, it is not their job to represent the Republican party. This is what Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski said this week when asked about Cheney and Kinzinger:
“It can be uncomfortable when you say I'm not going to align myself neatly with what the party is saying just because the party is saying [it]. You've got to be comfortable enough in who you are and who you represent and why you're here. I'm not here to be the representative of the Republican Party. I'm here to be the representative for Alaskan people. And I take that charge very, very seriously.”
I would add that they also represent the Constitution and the United States and it's core principles such as democracy and the rule of law. The bulk of the Republican party has shown no interest in either, and does not belong on that committee or in government at all.
You might have heard the phrase, "the loyal opposition" in reference to competing political parties, but apart from a handful of them, this opposition is disloyal. It's criminal. It's anti-American.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So what? Such a thing is argued against by actual leftists.
Though you’d likely find some willing to compromise I suppose. Except for anarchists maybe
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I couldn't think of any other country as far left as China.
The cities are wall to wall capitalism.
I think the difference is private capitalism vs state capitalism for which I think the left strives for the latter.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Wrong.
I don’t think so. The left is against capitalism in general. Though I suppose how much depends on the specific leftist. I’ve seen a proposed blended system, I’ve also seen leftists who want to do away with it altogether.
But I’m not well versed enough on political theory so…
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The committee is bipartisan, so there is no "Republican view". If you really don't want to have a democracy, why not just come forth and say it?
They haven't made that claim as far as I know, and both have made it clear that they're disgusted that so many other Pubs are not willing to publicly admit that what happened on January 6th and afterward was encouraged by Trump and that he tried to get the election results negated. We've seen many other party members and former party members admit what should be totally obvious by now.
Do you deny that Trump tried to negate the results of the election? Did you actually listen to what he and Pence said?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I can't imagine what a non capitalist society would even look like in the modern era.I don’t think so. The left is against capitalism in general. Though I suppose how much depends on the specific leftist. I’ve seen a proposed blended system, I’ve also seen leftists who want to do away with it altogether.
But I’m not well versed enough on political theory so…
Neither.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't think so.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Party loyalty is a poison. If members must fall in line then the party is not acting in the interest of society or democracy.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Really?
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Because you're wrong.
Why do you think you're an expert on leftist politics, anyway?
As far as I can tell, you know next to nothing about that subject.
Is this the Dunning Kruger effect in action?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Its a predictable respose from you.
I've been living in New York all my life so yea, you can say I'm an expert because I live in this leftest trashheap of a state and I know first hand just what incredible damage Democrats can do and have done to the people living here.
Repressed and the least free economic and least free personal state in the entire goddam nation.
New York, blue states rank 'least free,' as red states stand out in personal, economic freedoms survey
Others like California and Hawaii follow. All stinking Democrats in charge.
Democrat-Run States Are The 'Least Free' In The US: Poll
https://www.freedominthe50states.org/
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Yes, when it comes to calling out ignorance paired with absolutism, I am very predictable in my responses. I consider that a good thing, but I can see why you wouldn't.
Sorry, I keep forgetting that for American conservatives, milquetoast centrism like the NYT is what they think of when they talk about "socialism", which is probably why you also seem to believe that Ms. Occasio-Cortez is situated somewhere left of Pol Pot in her positions on national policy, which seem to consist mostly of advocacy for a higher minimum wage and a social security system. So we're looping back to your idea of "socialism" as "thing I don't like".
I have no interest in debating this further with you, but let me just say that policies you consider radical communism (such as social security, public infrastructure, and labor unions having a meaningful impact on the private economy) are seen as more or less the standard way of life in most of Europe, and in my opinion an eminently sensible way to run things, compared and contrasted with political movements who seem to believe that their own misery will be magically alleviated so long as they keep mistreating migrants and the economically unfortunate in equal measure.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
You mean, Democrats only wanted people who were interested in investigating Trump.
The Republicans have put forth aspects of the capitol attack that they would like to see investigated by the committee that the committee is not investigating.
It is good that you are honest about this being a partisan effort on the part of the Democrats. However, I don't really understand why you think Putin is relevant. I think your inclusion of him in your analysis says more about your own views than it says about anyone else's.
I don't think you understand the difference between a vote of in congress and the work a committee does. The entire point of a committee is delegation. The committee does not represent the interests of roughly half of congress (and by extension roughly half the country).
The committee is partisan because: it is investigating only what Democrats want investigated.
Cheney and Kinzinger are not representing their party on the committee.
As I understand it, some people are have only recently become aware of Pence's objection to Trump's suggestion he reject the electoral vote count despite the fact that Pence made that objection in plain speech more than a year ago. Some people are... a bit slow on the news, IMO.
I think Trump was very clear and has been very clear that he believes the election was stolen. Again this has been known for more than a year. And, of course, he tried to negate it.
But the reason for the committee is, ostensibly, to investigate the attack on the capitol. You appear to be suggesting the reason for the committee is to go after Trump. I don't deny that the committee is, in reality, a political attack.
Dishonesty is also poison. The committee investigating the capitol attack is, in reality, a partisan effort. Cheney and Kinzinger weren't chosen by the Republican party. To claim that the committee properly represents the interests of the people (aka Democracy) is a lie even if the individuals on the committee are sincere in their beliefs.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Lets consider the facts. Lots of Republicans believe the election was stolen from Trump and have used terms such as "peaceful protesting" to describe an insurrection. Lots of them even still had the nerve to challenge the election results after the Capitol was invaded and multiple people--including many Republicans--have found the election was secure. But Congressional Republicans aren't having it and they want to act like nothing wrong was done.
Democrats (and two Republicans) are interested in investigating the events and people surrounding the attack on the Capitol building Jan 6. This will implicate Trump and his co-conspirators such as Stone, Flynn, Bannon, and Giuliani.
Perhaps they shouldn't have withdrawn their three acceptable submissions and forfeited the other two choices to Pelosi by not suggesting two others to replace the two rejected. Since they didn't, Pelosi got to choose how many and which Republicans would serve on the committee to serve conservative interests. They're both quite conservative, and both voted with the majority of the party on most votes. The rest of the Republicans don't object to them because they are conservative Republicans, but because they will not support the party's effort to thwart the investigation. The party objects because they are interested in getting to the truth, which will be very embarrassing for many of the rest of the Republicans.
I don't care what the composition of the committee is as long as it is sincere in attempting to get to the truth of Jan 6. If the Republican leadership doesn't want to participate, that's fine.
Please realize this: bipartisanship refers to the cooperation of competing political parties that share common (American in this case) values, but with a different idea of how to do that. They both want to provide for the common defense, but one think that means thorough forming alliances and the other through isolationism. The both want people to have equal rights and opportunities, but one thinks that includes affirmative action and the other doesn't. In such a setting, each party can see the other as the loyal opposition.
But those who do not share these core American values are simply unwelcome to participate. How many entities that want to see American democracy taken down are there in the world? None of them are invited to participate. The input of none of them is solicited. Such entities include Russia, China, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, and now, the bulk of the Republican party, which like the others, has no use for Americanism or the Constitution - no use for democracy or the rule of law.
They're simply all unwelcome to participate, and the duty of all loyal Americans is to neutralize their pernicious influence as much as possible. Pelosi did that. Even Cheney and Kinzinger were on board with that thinking. They are both good examples of the loyal opposition, and they make the committee bipartisan.
The point of this committee is investigation.
As was asked of the German who complained that he couldn't find a good bagel anywhere in Berlin, whose fault is that?