The Amityville House

[Adramelek]

As a Setian Magician/Metaphysician, I hold that the psyche is immortal. I've studied the supposed haunting of the house in Amityville since I was 9 years old. I've read "The Amityville Horror" seen the movie, I've read "Murder In Amityville" which tells the story of the lives of the DeFeo's (I think that's how the name is spelled) while living on Ocean Avenue. At first Ronald DeFao claimed he heard voices in the house which told him to murder his entire family - so he did. Later, he changed his story and said he never heard voices in the house.

Be that as it may, I am of the mind that when such violence such as 5 people being murder in a house can create tremendous negative psychic vibrations which can linger on for years within such a confined structure such as a house.

I think, what the Lutz family endured after moving into a house not even a year after the violent murders took place, was all that depressive left over psychic residue that engulfed the house itself. The force was still so powerful it drove them from the house, leaving all of their belongings behind.

After years, all that depressive psyche energy eventually desolved, after all, the people who own the home now have never reported any "ghostly phenomenon" since they've lived there.

Of course, all this is simply my own opinion developed through my own research.

Xeper!
/Adramelek\

 

[Nanda]

snopes.com: The Amityville Horror

 

[Valjean]

What do you think of PETA's plans for it?

 

[fallingblood]

I think the Amityville Horror story has been thoroughly debunked now.

I was once interested in the story as well. Mainly because I dated a person who claimed to know the little boy (the son) who lived there. Whether or not that is true, I don't know. But it was before the remake of the movie came out, so I really don't see why she would lie about it. Her mother also supported the claim as well; but I don't know.

Anyway, looking at the various research done on the story, I would have to say there is little reason to believe the events occurred.

 

[Adramelek]

I see what your saying Fallingblood. My point is that it is possible for violent psychic forces to linger within a structure for short periods of time. I personally think the whole Amityville story to be a Greater Black Magical Working of sorts upon the psyche of the masses. That is, no one will ever look upon that house in the same way again... hoax or no hoax, people's subjective universe regarding that house has been forever changed. GBM is an extremely powerful Magical force.

 

[blackout]

Why would that be GBM, and not LBM?

 

[Adramelek]

Why would that be GBM, and not LBM?

LBM enhances a GBM Working, but the opposite is not true. Through years of LBM works such as all the books and movies written and made about the house, the house itself, its structure, its archeticture has become a diabolical icon within the objective universe. Nobody will ever look upon that house in the same way they did before reading or seeing "The Amityville Horror". The GBM of it is that it, the reputation of the house has taken on a life of its own - much like when a Magician sanctifies an Atheme or any other Magical implement. The act of sanctifying is LBM, where as the essence now taken upon the Atheme is the GBM result. In other words, the Atheme has now become a sacred object.

"Black Magic= the Art of altering or disrupting the equalibrium of the subjective universe in order to produce a proportionate change in the equilibrium of the objective universe."

/Adramelek\

 

[angellous_evangellous]

snopes.com: The Amityville Horror

The most telling evidence to me is that people have been able to live in the house (though I can't imagine why someone would want to) since the Lutz family left.

 

[fnord]

I too have studied the Amityville case for probably more years than has been good for me.

The posted Snopes article was surprising to me when I first saw it because I generally regard Snopes as being non biased and authoritative on nearly anything myth. Anyone who would use Rick Moran as an unassailable source deserves to be questioned about it though, especially when the article attributes a list of factual errors to him that was actually written by Stephen Kaplan. You should hear Moran's story about what went down in Amityville (with regard to the murders) if you want to hear a far out tale.

At any rate, contrary to the Snopes article, the Amityville Horror was not and is not now an 'admitted hoax'. Both Lutzes went to their graves telling basically the same story they'd always told. Of course, that story does not match Jay Anson's book but the Lutzes never claimed that it did. They called the book a 'Hollywood interpretation' from the beginning.

As for how others could live in the house... I have a theory but this is perhaps not the place.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

As for how others could live in the house... I have a theory but this is perhaps not the place.

Well I'd like to hear it.

The whole premise of this event is that evil is tied to a particular place. And yet people were able to smoothly move in and out of the house without incident.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I think, what the Lutz family endured after moving into a house not even a year after the violent murders took place, was all that depressive left over psychic residue that engulfed the house itself. The force was still so powerful it drove them from the house, leaving all of their belongings behind.

After years, all that depressive psyche energy eventually desolved, after all, the people who own the home now have never reported any "ghostly phenomenon" since they've lived there.

But the Lutz family moved in late Dec 1975 and out in Jan 1976, with the next family moving in March 1977.

The house was empty for 13 months before the Lutz family moved in, and 13 months passed before the next family moved in. (Creepy)

 

[blackout]

I stayed in one of Yoko Ono's estates when I was younger.

It was said to be haunted,
and no one lived in it.
It was a huge and ineresting building,
and I had the unique opportunity
to stay there for a few days.

I wasn't the least bit afraid,
hung out there for hours alone
and experienced nothing
but a very fascinating house.

I personally feel no connecion with ghosts,
the dead, or unresolved energy.
I never have.
Though I have seen/experienced
some VERY strange things...
in states of heightened awareness.
And many wildly unexplainable and improbable syncronicities,
particular to my own life.

I tend to think that people LARGELY
make up their own realities.
"Make up" can be read with multiple meaning.
(meaning both 'create' and 'are'.. or 'become' 'realize")

We each see/experience/believe
what we are personally inclined
to see/experience/believe.

I am personally inclined to see that
Subjectivity enters into everything.

I rather suspect the Lutz family
was haunted by visions of a book deal...
and creative money.
Obviously they were able to conjure up
whatever was necessary to 'become' their vision.
The murders in the house before them
served as their very real "ghost" of an idea.

The people who moved in after them
had other visions and ideas, all their own.

 

[fnord]

Well I'd like to hear it.

The whole premise of this event is that evil is tied to a particular place. And yet people were able to smoothly move in and out of the house without incident.

All right, so long as you treat it as opinion.

As a Satanist, my internal wiring prevents me from believing in any supernatural forces. Instead, I see things that are not understood as simply that, things that are not understood. Strange things happen in this world and I think our (general) inability to understand those things is due to a limited set of tools i.e. our own naive realism applied via data acquired from our five(?) senses. I include this so you can see the premise from where my thoughts originate.

Without getting into a discussion about what 'evil' is, I think that the idea that 'evil is tied to place' in this case is a flawed premise (in the way that it's normally understood). This idea originated from two places. Known paranormal writer/researcher Hans Holzer was authorized by Lutz to go into the house and investigate it. He took psychic medium Ethel Myers into the home and it was from her 'impressions' that the stories of the Indian burial grounds, the angry Indian chief etc were born. Archaeologists have since confirmed that the particular Indians in question didn't bury their dead on the island nor was that particular area inhabited by them (as a homestead). The second place where the 'haunted ground' idea came to fruition was through The Warrens who are a paranormal investigative\demonologist team. These folks said that an innocuous little storage room in the basement was the 'entrance to Hell'. Obviously, this has been debunked, most recently by a neighbor who played in the room as a child and actually had a hand in painting the room red.

So, where does that leave us?

I think the initial investigatory team of the Warren's produced one possible explanation when they decided to bring in their own psychic Mary Pascarella Downey. Mary Downey calls herself a 'timewalker' and actually has a proven record of being able to ascertain certain fact outside of the realm of the norm. She has been consulted by the police for help in solving crimes specifically because of her attuned awareness (whatever it may be). I'm inclined to disbelieve in 'psychics' but this one has a track record that is demonstrable. Mary Downey said in an interview that two things were the probable cause of the events described by the Lutzes. The first is that they were experimenting with transcendental meditation which likely opened their minds up to a more attuned awareness. The second thing she said is that she saw the house/location as a 'vortex'. Like some other places on earth, there are points where energy collects. Tesla knew this when he was trying to sell his idea of wireless electricity as evidenced by specific placements of his towers. Some places are simply more conducive to energy than others for a vast array of reasons (geological, spatial concerns etc).

In Mary Downey's assessment, the Lutzes for those reasons, were in the right place at the right time (or wrong place depending on your perspective) and doing the right things to lay the foundation for odd experiences.

Those who bought the house later were set in their minds that 'spooky' things would not be evident to them so they weren't.

For the most part, the Lutz's stories are fairly tame with the obvious exception of George's insistence that his wife levitated off the bed (which I chalk up to a mistake on his part or a lucid dream of some sort). Both Lutzes took lie detector tests administered by the best in the business at the time, and both passed. While it is possible that a person could fool a lie detector test (which is why they are not admissable evidence) I think two people trying to fool one by telling the same lies would exponentially preclude them from doing so.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Those who bought the house later were set in their minds that 'spooky' things would not be evident to them so they weren't.

I'm with you just about 100% on the "supernatural" actually being "natural."

[The fact that there is no Indian burial ground beneath the house notwithstanding]

If we as humans can leave such a deep imprint, I just don't buy that we can't experience these "supernatural" happenings simply because we don't "believe in them." This would be especially true with respect to evil, if there is such a thing, which would harm us indiscriminately.

I don't know why the Lutz family left in Dec 1976.

 

[fallingblood]

The most likely reason they left is because they simply couldn't afford living there anymore. They were losing money, and simply couldn't afford the payments on the house as well as their other bills.

One funny thing, a few days after they supposedly left the house for good, there is evidence that they returned a few days later to do a garage sale.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The most likely reason they left is because they simply couldn't afford living there anymore. They were losing money, and simply couldn't afford the payments on the house as well as their other bills.

One funny thing, a few days after they supposedly left the house for good, there is evidence that they returned a few days later to do a garage sale.

That's hilarious.

 

[fnord]

I just don't buy that we can't experience these "supernatural" happenings simply because we don't "believe in them." This would be especially true with respect to evil, if there is such a thing, which would harm us indiscriminately.

Well, I don't believe in supernatural 'evil' so we're neither here nor there on that one

As for the rest... I kind of think of it like magnetism, for example. Some folks can walk through a magnetic field and feel nothing. Others might report the hair on their arms standing up and/or having a woozy feeling. The same might hold true for things we call 'paranormal'.

I don't know why the Lutz family left in Dec 1976.

To me, the evidence is clear that they were scared. I have reasons thinking this true as well.

 

[fnord]

That's hilarious.

It's also not true.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

As for the rest... I kind of think of it like magnetism, for example. Some folks can walk through a magnetic field and feel nothing. Others might report the hair on their arms standing up and/or having a woozy feeling. The same might hold true for things we call 'paranormal'.

The magnetic field thing is a false analogy, because it supports my point and not yours.... that some folks can walk through the field and feel something or nothing -- presumably without knowing that they were in a magnetic field.

Belief has nothing to do with it in other words. The field is still there.

On my original point, the fact that a family moved in a short time after the Lutz family moved out is sufficient proof to me that they didn't leave because of anything out of the ordinary. The same family that bought the house in 1977 is still there today, living without incident. It could be that they were dishonest...

 

[fallingblood]

It's also not true.

Actually, you are right. It wasn't completely true. It wasn't after a week, it was after a day or so. Dr. Stephen Kaplan is the source for that.