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The Amityville House

fnord

Sorcerer
Actually, you are right. It wasn't completely true. It wasn't after a week, it was after a day or so. Dr. Stephen Kaplan is the source for that.

Silly rumor.

The house was intact 30 days later, clothes in closets etc, just how the Lutzes left it, when the investigations occurred. Their stuff was eventually auctioned off and the Lutzes were in no way present at this event.

Edit:
Kaplan's book "The Amityville Horror Conspiracy" is the source for the professional auctioneer selling off the Lutzes stuff... it specifically discredits the garage sale story. Not sure which Kaplan book you read..?
 
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fnord

Sorcerer
The magnetic field thing is a false analogy, because it supports my point and not yours.... that some folks can walk through the field and feel something or nothing -- presumably without knowing that they were in a magnetic field.

Belief has nothing to do with it in other words. The field is still there.

As I said, I'm only offering my opinion based on my own research and interviews. All I'm saying is that perhaps the Lutzes were more attuned to something being out of whack or they amped up their own fear levels so much that they freaked themselves out. Either way, I think THEY believed that something out of the ordinary happened to them.

The same family that bought the house in 1977 is still there today, living without incident. It could be that they were dishonest...
Several different people have lived there since. The Cromarty's were the first buyers post 'haunting' and they were definitely non receptive to any kind of paranormal activity. Brian Wilson (not of Beach Boys fame) is the current owner and has recently put the house up for sale. Any takers? :)
 

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
I think the initial investigatory team of the Warren's produced one possible explanation when they decided to bring in their own psychic Mary Pascarella Downey. Mary Downey calls herself a 'timewalker' and actually has a proven record of being able to ascertain certain fact outside of the realm of the norm. She has been consulted by the police for help in solving crimes specifically because of her attuned awareness (whatever it may be). I'm inclined to disbelieve in 'psychics' but this one has a track record that is demonstrable.
I'm not so convinced that Downey's track record is as impressive a implied. Granted, I'm only aware of a few of her "timewalking" jobs but her modus operandi seems to be the same as other psychic sleuths: ambiguous claims that can be attributed to just about anyone or any location and an active retrofitting to make the psychic "hit" appear more impressive than it is. Downey participated in the investigation of the Penney Serra murder (Penney was a 21 year old women murdered in 1973). Downey offered such profound psychic wisdom as:
The colour blue.
The odor of garage oil, water
The phrase "blood would tell" held some relevance apparently.
She said it would take a very long time to find the killer .
She "saw" a uniform with a name tag with the letter "E".
Greasy hands being wiped on a dirty cloth.
26 years later a mechanic named Edward Grant was arrested based on the fingerprint evidence and a blood test confirmed that it was his blood at the murder scene.

The problem is that her clues were to vague to be useful (for example, E is a common letter psychic frauds choose because it's so common in names). The case was solved by forensic science, not psychic intuition. And the other problem is that Downey offered her "clues" years after the event when Grant was a well known suspect: The Day - Google News Archive Search
Also, Downey's working with those known frauds Ed and Lorraine Warren causes my b.s. metre to go into the red.
Mary Downey said in an interview that two things were the probable cause of the events described by the Lutzes. The first is that they were experimenting with transcendental meditation which likely opened their minds up to a more attuned awareness. The second thing she said is that she saw the house/location as a 'vortex'. Like some other places on earth, there are points where energy collects. Tesla knew this when he was trying to sell his idea of wireless electricity as evidenced by specific placements of his towers. Some places are simply more conducive to energy than others for a vast array of reasons (geological, spatial concerns etc).
This may not be the thread to pursue this but what kinds of energy? What kinds of geographic features? Listric faults? Batholiths? :confused:

In Mary Downey's assessment, the Lutzes for those reasons, were in the right place at the right time (or wrong place depending on your perspective) and doing the right things to lay the foundation for odd experiences.

Those who bought the house later were set in their minds that 'spooky' things would not be evident to them so they weren't.

For the most part, the Lutz's stories are fairly tame with the obvious exception of George's insistence that his wife levitated off the bed (which I chalk up to a mistake on his part or a lucid dream of some sort). Both Lutzes took lie detector tests administered by the best in the business at the time, and both passed. While it is possible that a person could fool a lie detector test (which is why they are not admissable evidence) I think two people trying to fool one by telling the same lies would exponentially preclude them from doing so.
Not really. Lie detector tests are easily fooled, and it's a testament to archaic investigative methods that they're even referred to at all.
 

fnord

Sorcerer
Okay.

So did you just want to try to debunk my opinion or do you have any insight to offer on the case?
 

Nepenthe

Tu Stultus Es
Okay.

So did you just want to try to debunk my opinion or do you have any insight to offer on the case?
Not much beyond the Amytiville case being a well exposed fraud. There is a legitimate question of whether there was a monetary motive or if the family actually believed something paranormal was occurring. My post simply pointed out that some of your opinions- such as Downey and claims of energy around geographic areas- were based on falsehoods. Stating your post was an opinion doesn't protect it from criticism or debunking.
 

fnord

Sorcerer
Not much beyond the Amytiville case being a well exposed fraud. There is a legitimate question of whether there was a monetary motive or if the family actually believed something paranormal was occurring. My post simply pointed out that some of your opinions- such as Downey and claims of energy around geographic areas- were based on falsehoods. Stating your post was an opinion doesn't protect it from criticism or debunking.

Well the Downey thing can't really be quantified. I've listened to her speak and I've looked at what she's offered up and I think there is some value in what she says. I can see why others might not find it so which is why I was careful to say that what I offer is opinion. As for the energy thing, I'll go find the article I read about Tesla's tower proposal and why he would choose particular locales. Granted, what he said may be flawed but it made me relate it for some reason. I'll get back to you.

The monetary motive is the most interesting thing about the Lutz case to me. To me, evidence points to it not being a premeditated hoax based on following the money and based on the odds of undertaking such a venture initially. Lutz would have to have been a hell of a gambler to make the premeditated hoax accusation stick.


Edit:
Where has the fraud been well exposed?
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
For me, as I ponder it, it was the architecture, the structure of the Amityville house that attracted me. The "Law of the Trapezoid" comes to mind. When I first saw the Amityville Horror at the age of 9, it was the structure of the house itself that, for some reason, awakened within me my true Satanic nature and henceforth, my journey on the Path of the Left began. Those third floor windows that looked like eyes in sorrow, were so haunting to me. I began reading books on haunted houses, which lead to my interest in the occult which eventually lead to my life long study and practice of Satanism and the Black Arts of the Left-Hand Path.

/Adramelek\
 
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fnord

Sorcerer
The house does have some funky angles.

Have you read Dr. Aquino's essay "Dark Deco"? Very cool observations in that work that are germane to the discussion.
 
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