The anti-Muslim/Islam nonsense needs to stop

[SalixIncendium]

Speaking of staff, I've seen staff call Islam as a mental illness. So there is a problem here.

Staff or no, if you see such behavior, report it.

 

[columbus]

You never "Click" or "Check" without reading?

Oh yes.
If you'd been on RF as long as I have you'd remember when an admin started a thread asking if members had read the rules before checking the box. He seemed surprised to find that few members had done it.
I hadn't. And I said so.

I've been a member of a lot of groups, including a large number of internet forums. One thing I know is that the stated rules mean very little, what matters is how they're interpreted by the staff. I lurked here on RF for a few days before deciding that the staff and I would get along, so I joined. I didn't care about the rules.

I got a warning for my very first post. It was for proselytizing Catholicism. I thought, "Dang, these people are serious! Perfect." I liked RF better and better as I figured out what would get warnings and infraction points and what wouldn't. The staff and I get along great.

I stopped bothering with any of my other forums. This place was too good.
Forty something warnings and twenty something infraction points later, I've really learned a lot.

Is that not enough? Or should I wear a "Shame" sign everywhere I go?

I can't think of a reason for doing so.
Unless you're one of those Christians who revel in shaming, martyrdom, feeling persecuted.
It wouldn't make you unique.
Tom

 

[sun rise]

This is a bit of a tangent but:

For millennia there has been an industry dedicated to wrapping scripture in a thick cloth of "religious scholarly analysis". To this day, lots of people make a good living as religious scholars / apologists. One result of this mountain of "scholarly research", is that apologists can claim that the rest of us are "ignorant".

I mostly call B#llS#it on this defense.

I'm going to agree with you partially. I agree with what you wrote as far as you took it. But the presence of a mound of crap does not mean it's all crap. There are some sincere people who don't have religious egos and hammer others with their erudition and presumed rightness.

And given how many people pay attention to their analysis, it is worthwhile, at least to me, to understand how their minds work.

 

[icehorse]

I'm going to agree with you partially. I agree with what you wrote as far as you took it. But the presence of a mound of crap does not mean it's all crap. There are some sincere people who don't have religious egos and hammer others with their erudition and presumed rightness.

And given how many people pay attention to their analysis, it is worthwhile, at least to me, to understand how their minds work.

To me there are at least two situations here:

1 - I would agree that it's VERY useful to understand how different sects or denominations interpret scripture.
2 - Given how many interpretations typically exist, I think it's usually a bad argument to claim "you're interpreting it wrong" to a critic.

 

[SomeRandom]

I disagree and whether that’s true or not these algorithms you speak of in producing these threads as featured display the same “behavior” as YouTube and Facebook. Many YOuTubers has had the same issues when they create videos that are controversial and are flagged which affects their monetization.

The problem I see is that it is displaying a bias from observing it.

YouTube screws over everyone with their algorithm, in all honesty.
Most content creators either have a Patreon or just go to Twitch instead. This is true for outspoken atheists, gamers, “lefties” Booktubers, collectors, streamers, podcasts, geeks etc.
I don’t know if it points to a bias as much as it just makes it clear that YouTube is a bit crap.

 

[Milton Platt]

Look, I get it. Many of you don’t like Islam and some of you don’t personally like Muslims. It’s not so much that personal opinions regarding Islam that bothers me (because 90% of the people here critiquing Islam know diddly squat on Islam), it’s the fact that “the powers that be” posts these same anti-Islam threads as featured threads on the website.

I, at least in the past spread the criticism around to different religions yet I rarely see those threads pop up as a featured thread. The issues that I see with those threads becoming featured discussions is that you’re featuring these “critiques” but these are redundant issues that have been regurgitated and talked about.

All I am saying is if I criticize Judaism, or Hinduism, or any other faith let that be a featured thread as well. I’m not saying that threads I’ve made in the past weren’t featured but it seems that more likely than not, anything critiquing Islam or the Muslim community at large more commonly gets featured over threads that question the validity of other faiths.

That to me displays the level of bias by the website itself or those who are in control of featuring threads. This to me is not fairness. Not to mention featuring threads that continually bash Islam or Muslims just draws people who already have a negative view of the faith into discussion, making it not an actual intelligent discussion, but an echo chamber.

If it’s going to be about religion let it be about it, but stop always featuring threads that criticize Islam. This is one of the main reasons why the only moderate Muslim who was a moderator left. It just fosters the level of toxicity that makes actual discussion impossible.

That's an interesting observation, and one that would not necessarily be apparent to a non-Muslim. I hope the "powers that be" see your post and take this into account.
Because of the large and very vocal and active militant component of Islam, people do tend to compartmentalize Muslims into this one group. It is unfair, to be sure. How can we separate militant from non-militant Muslims on the forum? Can you outline steps within the Muslim community to separate militant from non-militant? It would help understanding immensely.

 

[sun rise]

2 - Given how many interpretations typically exist, I think it's usually a bad argument to claim "you're interpreting it wrong" to a critic.

If the interpretation has errors of fact, that should be noted. If there's a question of interpretation, I prefer trying to just state my different interpretation (at least on my better days).

 

[SA Huguenot]

Dude I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time refuting people here using Hadith and Qur’an and I tend to use academic sources. Many times when I face anti-Muslims majority use anti-Muslim websites or they post verses from Quran because you know, it’s in English therefore it needs no interpretation.

Dude!
We live in 2019 where we have computers that can do the translations of the Quran from Arab into any language.
I use the Corpus Quran website for my translation.
No muslim can tell me what the Quran says, and get away with a whitewash on it.
The Quran is a book of hatred, lies, destruction.
You are welcone to bring the Quran and the Hadith anytime to prove me wrong, you will not be the first, not the last Muslim that will run away.

And you dont have to feel attacked, Atheists does a damn good job in victimising, questioning, and attacking the Judean and Christian religion.

Guess what, not one of us feels victimised pal!
We take it on the chin, and continue with our discussions.
Funny that Mohammadeans always complain how they are somehow victimised when the truth is posted.
Shape up man, If you need to defent Muhammad and his manmade book, do it without beheadings, of getting your feelings hurt!

 

[SA Huguenot]

It's profoundly hypocritical when Christians use the "no true Scotsman" fallacy when subjects like the crusades, EuroChristian colonialism, slavery, the Holocaust, or the invasions of Iran and Iraq are mentioned. But then go on to viciously criticise Islam for violent elements.
Tom

Yes, I dont like it either.
Then again, The Bible prohibits Christians from murdering non Christians.
If there are people who murder undre the flag of "Christianity", they will answer to God.
But allow me to demonstrate the difference between Christianity and Islam.

I as a Christian denounce and condemn any violence in the name of Jesus Christ and proclaim that any such person does not act in the instructions from Jesus Christ.
Now find me one Muslim that will say that about Muslims beheadings, tortures, rape, slavery etc.
They do not exist, because if they condemn such acts, they condemn Muhammad.

Go and test it for yourself.
Ask any Muslim to condemn, say Lee Rigby who was beheaded in England in daylight, or the 9/11 attack killing 3500 inocent people, and they will say:

We condemn all violence, whether it is Christian of Muslim!
Nice vague statements is what you will get.
Ask again, Do you condemn the persons who killed these people, and they will give you some sop story of "it is America who provoked them, if your mother gets attack, will you stand and watch?"

Tell this poor muslim who placed this thread:
The anti-Muslim/Islam nonsense needs to stop
It is not nonsence, Muslims did it to them self.
Ane we all have the right to discuss it.

 

[Wasp]

Tell this poor muslim who placed this thread:
The anti-Muslim/Islam nonsense needs to stop
It is not nonsence, Muslims did it to them self.
Ane we all have the right to discuss it.

He's not a Muslim.

Top Funders
The eight donors that contributed $57 million to the Islamophobia network between 2001 and 2012.

• Donors Capital Fund and Donors Trust Contributed $27,042,600
• Alan and Hope Winters Family Foundation Contributed $817,060
• Scaife Foundations Contributed $10,475,000
• Russell Berrie Foundation Contributed $3,802,351
• Fairbrook Foundation Contributed $1,859,450
• Newton D. & Rochelle F. Becker Foundations and Charitable Trust Contributed $1,411,000
• William Rosenwald Family Fund, Middle Road Foundation, and Abstraction Fund Contributed $4,952,979
• Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation Contributed $6,540,000

A small group of foundations and wealthy donors serve as the lifeblood of the Islamophobia network in the United States. They provide critical funding to a clutch of right-wing think tanks and misinformation experts who peddle hate and fear of Muslims and Islam – in the form of books, vides, reports, and websites. And in turn, a dedicated group of anti-Islam grassroots organizations and right-wing religious groups use the materials as propaganda for their constituency.

The Islamophobia Network

Can you force the dam shut? I don't think so.

 

[SA Huguenot]

He's not a Muslim.



Can you force the dam shut? I don't think so.

Walk, Quack, act... like a Duck.....

 

[Wasp]

Walk, Quack, act... like a Duck.....

Really? I disagree.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Really? I disagree.

welcome pal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Such groups do exist in Christianity, but not to a comparable extent. Some of them interpret that word to imply that Christian teachings can't ever need reconsideration for validity, others do not.

In America they're pretty common, especially within the Fundamentalist and Evangelical denominations. Such as, it's a given that the vast majority of Creationists will believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of god.

 

[LuisDantas]

In America they're pretty common, especially within the Fundamentalist and Evangelical denominations. Such as, it's a given that the vast majority of Creationists will believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of god.

But how representative are those groups of Christian communities of the same places?

 

[columbus]

IMHO bigoted anti Islam threads should be treated just like political threads and not featured

I've asked this before.
Who cares about featured threads and why?

IMHO, political threads shouldn't be treated like religion. But they are. Feminists, conservative, liberal political views threads are treated as "Discuss Individual Religion" threads. Do you object to that?
If so, why. If not, why not?
Tom

 

[Sand Dancer]

I understand that this is a tangent, but you opened the door...

BECAUSE Muslims claim that their scripture is PERFECT, it is not good enough that *some* passages are peaceful. Muslims continue to CHOOSE to raise the bar and demand that we agree that their scripture is perfect. They make it hard on themselves.

That is an issue with Abrahamic fundamentalists.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

From a collective aspect, the religion brought it upon itself by the actions of its followers.

The sheer brutality and violence of the major Muslim sects speak for itself.

There's too much going on with this religion that doesn't deserve a pass which is why it's critiqued so much.

The sheer brutality and violence of the human race appears universal. The US is not innocent in the violence the Muslim nations of the Middle East are mired in.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

But how representative are those groups of Christian communities of the same places?

Enough to influence policy on such things as child marriage, gay rights, and abortion.

 

[LuisDantas]

Enough to influence policy on such things as child marriage, gay rights, and abortion.

True enough.

I still maintain that it is a far cry from Islaam, and we should raise awareness of the extent of the difference.