The Apostle Paul was the anti-christ according to the first Christians

[sojourner]

Read what I wrote genius. "Fourteen of the twenty-seven books in the New Testament have traditionally been attributed to Paul".

I didn't create that statement its verbatim from Wikipedia genius.

Your post #342:

Still not addressing the point that he was a less than savory character that wrote half the book.

Paul certainly wrote 7. The other 7 are highly debatable.

From the Wiki article here:
Paul the Apostle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of the 27 books in the New Testament, 14 have been attributed to Paul; 7 of these are widely considered authentic and Paul's own, while the authorship of the other seven is disputed.

You're welcome.









Genius.

 

[sojourner]

Ok I did say "wrote" but I should of said "responsible for". I did correct that. Oh by the way I did like your statement about your search for anything to prove Paul's deception. It was informative. I don't think you can find any statement negative about Paul in Christian literature. Just like you won't find negative statements about Muhammad in Islamic literature.

I still disagree with you about Paul. I agree with Islam in calling him "a deceiver of the Christians". I believe he distorted Yeshua's teachings to make it more acceptable for Gentiles. Jews aren't that fond of him either. I'm not trying to convince you of Paul's deception, just like you will never convince those of us that question Paul's veracity.

But since Paul predates the earliest writings we have of Jesus' teachings (1 Thess. dates to about 40 c.e.; Mark [the earliest gospel] dates post-70 c.e.), I don't see how you can show that with any degree of certainty. Perhaps the gospel writers distorted Jesus' teachings?

Or, more plausible, there is no "distortion" going on -- just different POVs.

 

[Tabb]

But since Paul predates the earliest writings we have of Jesus' teachings (1 Thess. dates to about 40 c.e.; Mark [the earliest gospel] dates post-70 c.e.), I don't see how you can show that with any degree of certainty. Perhaps the gospel writers distorted Jesus' teachings?

Or, more plausible, there is no "distortion" going on -- just different POVs.

It's all possible. Thats why we call it faith or a belief. No one has cornered the market on truth in all this. One of the biggest problems I feel with religion is how complicated people have made it. I believe that if there is a heaven and a judgement day our lives won't be judged on if you read the book but on how you lived your life.

 

[sojourner]

It's all possible. Thats why we call it faith or a belief. No one has cornered the market on truth in all this. One of the biggest problems I feel with religion is how complicated people have made it. I believe that if there is a heaven and a judgement day our lives won't be judged on if you read the book but on how you lived your life.

Of course. but some possibilities are far more likely than others, based on the best evidence.

Religion is complicated because human beings are complicated creatures.

 

[Tabb]

Of course. but some possibilities are far more likely than others, based on the best evidence.

Religion is complicated because human beings are complicated creatures.

It's pretty hard to know which evidence is valid. Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others all believe the evidence support their beliefs. Maybe they're all right. Maybe God lets us all believe what he wants us to.

 

[outhouse]

It's pretty hard to know which evidence is valid.

.

Not true.

With science, reason and a lack of bias, many things are possible.

Muslims, Jews, Christians, and others all believe the evidence support their beliefs

Religion force people away from reality, to different degrees.

Their faith means nothing to reality. believe what you want, it changes nothing in reality, education and knowledge remain the same.

Maybe they're all right

They are all wrong because they all place different values in mythology claimed as real. Yet it remains factually unsubstantiated.

. . Maybe God lets us all believe what he wants us to

That is fanaticism

 

[Tabb]

Not true.

With science, reason and a lack of bias, many things are possible.




Religion force people away from reality, to different degrees.

Their faith means nothing to reality. believe what you want, it changes nothing in reality, education and knowledge remain the same.




They are all wrong because they all place different values in mythology claimed as real. Yet it remains factually unsubstantiated.







That is fanaticism

I wish I could disagree but everything you wrote is true fom a non theist point of view. However if you are someone who believes in a deity all you have are these so called myths to justify your belief. I personally really don't need to go any further than I believe in a higher supernatural being. The extent of his omnificsence is far beyond anyone's ability to comprehend. So to me all of these arguments about who said what or did what is just human drama. A being that would be powerful enough to create a universe could care less about human traditions and worship.

 

[outhouse]

However if you are someone who believes in a deity all you have are these so called myths to justify your belief..

With education you learn why the author wrote what he did to put these beliefs in proper context.

You can still view them as myth, search for the truth, and keep your faith.

I will say the more you learn, your faith can and will take different shapes, and never for the worse. Knowledge Is power that gives strength to the changed faith.

 

[Tabb]

With education you learn why the author wrote what he did to put these beliefs in proper context.

You can still view them as myth, search for the truth, and keep your faith.

I will say the more you learn, your faith can and will take different shapes, and never for the worse. Knowledge Is power that gives strength to the changed faith.

I see the merit in religious studies not so much Theology. But studying these subjects will help you to understand man and his relation to religion. Not so much God though. I do beleive that obtaining Knowledge is key and as one of my early mentors told me "you can even learn from a monkey". Life has showed me over and over the wisdom in that.

 

[savagewind]

With education you learn why the author wrote what he did to put these beliefs in proper context.

Proper context is their beleif in A God which you know nothing about. But keep trying.

 

[sojourner]

Proper context is their beleif in A God which you know nothing about. But keep trying.

No. That's not proper context, in the process of critical exegesis.

 

[savagewind]

No. That's not proper context, in the process of critical exegesis.

OK. The writers' context not the scholarly context. God chooses writers who AREN'T critical. That is what he doesn't know. If Bible writers were critical we would have men's thoughts not God's thoughts. See? He can't imagine it is possible to write how God sees anything.

 

[outhouse]

God chooses writers who AREN'T critical..

You mean god only talks to dumb people?

 

[outhouse]

See? .

See the fanaticism? clearly

 

[Shuttlecraft]

You mean god only talks to dumb people?

Nah, he don't want mindless robots..
Matthew was a tax-collector, able to write and do sums.
Mark was from a posh influential family
Luke was a doctor
John was a bit of a rebellious hothead
Moses was a prince
Paul once led a posse of bounty hunters
Peter clobbered somebody with his sword
Jeremiah and Jonah at first refused pointblank to be prophets
etc etc

 

[Robert.Evans]

......... A being that would be powerful enough to create a universe could care less about human traditions and worship.

Yet the text does not say that...so how do you answer it?

 

[Tabb]

Yet the text does not say that...so how do you answer it?

I personally put the scriptures in prospective. I realize when it was written and the circumstances it was written in. I don't accept all of it is the word of God or even it's efficacy has survived time and countless translations.

 

[savagewind]

You mean god only talks to dumb people?

Funny! Dumb means with nothing good to say. Ok. Then how is The Bible the most read book in the HISTORY of the world?

Or do you mean dumb means to not agree with outhouse? They didn't know you dear.

 

[Tabb]

Funny! Dumb means with nothing good to say. Ok. Then how is The Bible the most read book in the HISTORY of the world?

Or do you mean dumb means to not agree with outhouse? They didn't know you dear.

I think it's the most purchased book. It being read is another matter.

 

[savagewind]

I think it's the most purchased book. It being read is another matter.

Yes presently it is being read by few but when I say anything I encompass all time. I am a Christian. I think it is our job. So for as long as reading has existed The Bible is the most read book.