The Aryans in the Indus Valley

[Jainarayan]

his question never ends. Could it be that everyone is more than 1/2 correct? That is, all these very interesting and, IMHO, amazing things were happening at the same - people coming, people leaving, people staying, Gods, aliens, proto-humans, proto-animals, etc?

Booyah!

I have been saying what you just said for a long time. I don't know why it has to be a binary issue... one way or the other. So much and so many things can happen simultaneously, together, concurrently and at the same time over the course of millennia. Look how human societies have changed in just a few hundred years, let alone thousands of years.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

I am going to rule inconclusive on any history beyond 10,000 years ago. We are so unsure about any history before 500BCE, and anything before that is based on imperfect methods of finding fragments here and there and fossils here and there, and lots of interpretations. I personally think we have forgotten a lot of our history and I cannot rule out the existence of advanced civilisations on this planet 50,000 to even 100,000 years ago. Even the human fossil record is not clear as well, if we consider the modern human fossils we have found going back much further --- yeah I tried to read Cremo's book! lol

 

[Vinayaka]

Booyah!

I have been saying what you just said for a long time. I don't know why it has to be a binary issue... one way or the other. So much and so many things can happen simultaneously, together, concurrently and at the same time over the course of millennia. Look how human societies have changed in just a few hundred years, let alone thousands of years.

One aspect to the nature of the argumentative intellectual mind is to get emotional and passionate about 'your side'. That sort of one-pointed concentration may be helpful in memorizing long slokas or getting things accomplished, but rarely does it bear any fruit whatsoever in debate over a 90% forgotten history.

However expressing some doubt about 'facts' isn't the same as denying those same 'facts'.

"Maybe. Maybe not." although as inconclusive as ever, is most likely healthier for the heart.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am going to rule inconclusive on any history beyond 10,000 years ago.

Personally, I have a much smaller number than 10 000. Just compare the deaths in WW2 from two sources, German, versus Allied.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"Spirit_Warrior,",

Namaste,

Although I am not interested in this particular topic (I consider Aryan/Dravidian tags a myth), just a question, during my years i had read somewhere that the ASI (Ancestral South Indian) gene is not found on the Indian subcontinent but is prevalent only in the Andaman Islands?, Have you or anyone else who is interested heard of this?

And where is the ANI prevelent?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Right. That is what Wikipedia, the new Purana says. ANI is present all over India.

"The Andamanese are believed to represent the original migrations which, about 60,000 years ago, brought the first modern humans out of Africa to the Andaman Islands. Analysis of mtDNA, which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. There were mutations here that are found nowhere else in the world. All Onge belong to M32 mtDNA, subgroup of M which is unique to Onge people. While parental Y-DNA is exclusively Haplogroup D. According to the genome-wide study in 2009, Andamanese split from mainland Asia around 48,500 years."
"The Andamanese arrived at the Andaman Islands around the latest Glacial Maximum, ca. 26,000 years ago."
"The frizzy hair is considered polygenic because it is the one phenotype feature that has not changed. The skin color and stature can vary within a population. Therefore, hair characterization is very important in identifying the Andaman islanders. The stature of the people within the population has changed over time, a relatively short time. Scientists believe the variation in stature can be contributed to about 200 gene loci that influence height. Similarly, variation in skin color can be contributed to the great number of gene loci that affect the expression of that phenotype. The isolation of the Andamanese people is what has kept the variation in phenotype within the population low. The craniometric study of the Andamanese people is almost the same as that of the South Asians. Therefore, the only way to distinguish between South Asians and Andamanese people is by comparing their stature, skin color, and hair."
Andamanese peoples - Wikipedia and other pages

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Right. That is what Wikipedia, the new Purana says. ANI is present all over India.

"The Andamanese are believed to represent the original migrations which, about 60,000 years ago, brought the first modern humans out of Africa to the Andaman Islands. Analysis of mtDNA, which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. There were mutations here that are found nowhere else in the world. All Onge belong to M32 mtDNA, subgroup of M which is unique to Onge people. While parental Y-DNA is exclusively Haplogroup D. According to the genome-wide study in 2009, Andamanese split from mainland Asia around 48,500 years."
"The Andamanese arrived at the Andaman Islands around the latest Glacial Maximum, ca. 26,000 years ago."
"The frizzy hair is considered polygenic because it is the one phenotype feature that has not changed. The skin color and stature can vary within a population. Therefore, hair characterization is very important in identifying the Andaman islanders. The stature of the people within the population has changed over time, a relatively short time. Scientists believe the variation in stature can be contributed to about 200 gene loci that influence height. Similarly, variation in skin color can be contributed to the great number of gene loci that affect the expression of that phenotype. The isolation of the Andamanese people is what has kept the variation in phenotype within the population low. The craniometric study of the Andamanese people is almost the same as that of the South Asians. Therefore, the only way to distinguish between South Asians and Andamanese people is by comparing their stature, skin color, and hair."
Andamanese peoples - Wikipedia and other pages

Namaste, so are the people in Indian subcontinent all with ANI gene?

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is what people (geneticists and anthropologists) say. These are the only people who have the ASI gene.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

That is what people (geneticists and anthropologists) say. These are the only people who have the ASI gene.

Hmm, interesting. Dhanyavad

 

[ajay0]

"Ancestral South Indians (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI (Ancestral North Indian) and "not closely related to groups outside the subcontinent." According to Basu et al. (2016), the ASI are earliest settlers in India, possibly arriving on the southern exit wave out of Africa."
Peopling of India - Wikipedia

In my travels in India I have never seen much of a difference between people in the north and south. I have seen people belonging to the upper castes in north India as well of dark complexion, and they seem to be the vast majority.

Look at the complexions of the prime ministers and chief ministers themselves such as Vajpayee, Modi, Manmohan Singh, Arvind Kejriwal and the tawny dark complexion seems to be the predominant complexion in the north as well.

There may be exceptions in certain areas, which can be attributed to relatively recent migrations from all over the world and who had adopted the Hindu or Buddhist faith. We know for a fact that the Greeks and Huns had adopted Hinduism and Buddhism in large numbers.

The interesting fact is also that I have also observed a large number of fair-skinned individuals in the south as well of all castes . This is also a reason why I am a disbeliever in the theories of the Aryans coming from outside.

 

[Shantanu]

Do any of you guys know why the Aryan tribes migrated to India?

Also, how much influence did they have over the religion of India?

Migration has always taken place when people have seen opportunities for better food production prospects. India must already have had settled agricuture and people practising the Vedic religion.