• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Assassination of British MP Jo Cox Has Intensified Britain's Political Crisis

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...ps-murder.html


The Assassination of British MP Jo Cox Has Intensified Britain's Political Crisis

In the UK, Thomas Mair has been formally charged with the shooting and stabbing murder of British MP Jo Cox, and the suspect gave his name as “death to traitors, freedom for Britain,” while appearing at the Westminster magistrates court on Saturday, the Guardian reports. “Bearing in mind the name he has just given, he ought to be seen by a psychiatrist,” the magistrate responded. Whatever Mair’s ailments or motivations, the killing of Cox, a well-respected activist and politician who was seen as a rising star of the opposition Labour Party, one week before the Brexit vote, has both exposed and exacerbated a deep political crisis in the country.


As the New York Times reported Friday night, the 52-year-old Mair is being investigated for ties to right-wing extremism, as well as a history of mental illness, and authorities reportedly believe the part-time gardener had targeted 41-year-old Cox for political reasons. They continue to investigate witness accounts that the suspect had shouted “Britain first” during the attack, a slogan which is also the name of a far-right political group in the UK that opposes both immigration and the country’s membership in the European Union, though the that group has denied any link between it and the attack.

Following Cox’s murder on Thursday, the campaigning for and against Britain’s EU membership, with a referendum vote on the so-called Brexit scheduled for next Thursday, remains officially suspended, though it appears that campaigning will resume sometime over the weekend. Cox was ardently pro-immigration and an active campaigner for the UK to remain in the EU, and her assassination has prompted calls for more civility from across the political spectrum in the country...

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, Mair had a history of purchasing material, including a neo-Nazi book, from a white supremacist organization in the U.S., and he also subscribed to a South African pro-apartheid magazine in the 1980s.

It’s still not clear how Cox’s death will influence public opinion and next week’s voting on the possible Brexit, but her brutal murder has shocked the country and highlighted how divisive the debate over EU membership, and relatedly, immigration, has become in the country. The Spectator’s Alex Massie, in his response to the attack, confessed that he “cannot recall ever feeling worse about this country and its politics” than he did on Thursday. He also succinctly summarized why many have grown to despair the tone of the Brexit campaign, and in particular decried the long-term tactics of those opposing EU membership on the right:

Sometimes rhetoric has consequences. If you spend days, weeks, months, years telling people they are under threat, that their country has been stolen from them, that they have been betrayed and sold down the river, that their birthright has been pilfered, that their problem is they’re too slow to realise any of this is happening, that their problem is they’re not sufficiently mad as hell, then at some point, in some place, something or someone is going to snap. And then something terrible is going to happen.

We can’t control the weather but, in politics, we can control the climate in which the weather happens. That’s on us, all of us, whatever side of any given argument we happen to be. Today, it feels like we’ve done something terrible to that climate.
Massie adds that “if you don’t feel a little ashamed – if you don’t feel sick, right now, wherever you are reading this – then something’s gone wrong with you somewhere.”

As an example of how twisted the case to Leave has become, the Times notes that:

The official and unofficial Leave campaigns have suggested that Turkey and its 77 million Muslims are soon to join the European Union, which is untrue, and that despite Britain’s restrictions on free travel for European citizens, membership in the European Union has made Britain more vulnerable to waves of refugees and terrorism

While the claims may be unsubstantiated, pollsters suggest that the focus on Turkey and on regaining “control” over immigration was behind the movement toward a British exit, or Brexit, which is now narrowly leading most polls.
.
...


But at the New Statesman, Laurie Penny tries to take an aerial view how Cox's murder, and the reaction to it, is but the latest evidence of a much larger problem facing the Western world:

This is not simply a question of terrorism, or of mental illness, easy as either of those answers would be. It’s both, and more. It’s hate-groups preying on the broken and hopeless and fearful, and we are letting it happen.

Sometimes people break down. And sometimes societies break down, and if we are using the language of sickness, the sickness is inside us.

Something has gone badly wrong in this country. Something has gone badly wrong in America, and in the rest of Europe. The centre cannot hold; deep cracks of violence and suspicion crawl in from the fringes of public opinion to rend the heart of the political consensus. Ruthless shysters exploit the rage of the most vulnerable, of those cheated and tossed aside by austerity and inequality, and redirect it towards the marginalised, towards outsiders. ...

The sickness is already inside us. The craziness is chewing away at the heart of our society, of our politics. It cannot be explained away, and we owe it to ourselves and to the victims not to write it off as affectless terrorism or meaningless madness. It is hate. There is a logic to it. That logic is being exploited by unscrupulous scumbags, to everyone’s shame.
 

gsa

Well-Known Member
The sickness is already inside us. The craziness is chewing away at the heart of our society, of our politics. It cannot be explained away, and we owe it to ourselves and to the victims not to write it off as affectless terrorism or meaningless madness. It is hate. There is a logic to it. That logic is being exploited by unscrupulous scumbags, to everyone’s shame.

I have been given assurances, based on reactions to similar events in the US, that there is no need to concern yourself with the ideology of the murderer because his only motivation is mental illness. Religion and political affiliation is totally irrelevant it is Brexitphobic to even ask about it.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
I think this is a bit overdramatic. A crazy loner who had never held down a job murdered someone. That doesn't mean the whole of society is deranged.

I don't think that is what anyone is suggesting, actually.

In Britain we have witnessed xenophobia, racism and hatred for weeks - this is what the EU referendum has whipped up. This man claimed that he was a political activist and murdered Jo Cox in the name of "British Independence". He did not arrive at these extreme conclusions in a vacuum.

Please consider 'who' he murdered and 'why'. It was not a random attack.

The referendum has created a toxic environment in which each side has demonized the other and mainstream politics has become infected with fringe, exclusivist ideas.

As a result, it is not surprising - even though it is shocking - that the cycle of bitterness whipped up by this campaign has inspired an unhinged person with links to far-right organisations to kill someone from "one side" in supposed support for the other.

The referendum has created a poisonous political environment that has been ramped up to fever pitch by the Brexiters scaremongering about migrants.

If you create a febrile, vicious environment through the press and politics - there are grave consequences that can arise.
 
Last edited:

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Well the way to prevent these tragedies it to BAN KNIVES in England.
http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=knife+ban+in+england&v_t=client97_searchbox
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/1...ban-long-kitchen-knives-end-daniel-greenfield
http://www.infowars.com/is-this-a-joke-british-police-push-for-ban-on-pointy-knives/

I could go on posting the knife ban but my fingers would get tired of copy and paste.
It appears to me that security might have been a taddy bit relaxed in this
case.
Can you just imagine the horror that KNIVES WERE USED IN HALF OF ALL STABBINGS!?
Hey, didn't come up with this bit of insane drivel.
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings. The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/1...ban-long-kitchen-knives-end-daniel-greenfield

Yes siree. Ban long kitchen knives and confiscate all of them from the populace.
That would serve to create a lot of innocents becoming criminals by law.
It's been a law in Great Britain that air guns must be registered and a license to

purchase is required.
Air guns, as in even a bee bee gun.
In Great Britain crows, called rooks, are rampant and eat farmers seeds almost
as quickly as seeds are planted.
Farmers that want to control rook populations must apply for a permit to dispatch them
and buy a special firearm called a "rook gun" to shoot the things.
Expensive also.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Though this is a terrible event and my heart goes out to the family, friends and supporters of Jo Cox, the Remain camp must be practically wetting themselves at the opportunity this has provided.

One factoid I ran into today was that this is a non-binding referendum. Granted, if the numbers are high enough to leave it would be political suicide to ignore outcome of the vote, but the powers that be could do just that.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Though this is a terrible event and my heart goes out to the family, friends and supporters of Jo Cox, the Remain camp must be practically wetting themselves at the opportunity this has provided.

I think that is a disgusting thing to write.

Absolutely insensitive and disgusting.

No one, from either side in this dreadful debate, is 'wetting' themselves over the brutal murder of an innocent young woman simply doing her job en route from helping her constituents.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I think that is a disgusting thing to write.

Absolutely insensitive and disgusting.

No one, from either side in this dreadful debate, is 'wetting' themselves over the brutal murder of an innocent young woman.
That is not what I am saying. It has given them a much needed opportunity and it would appear, from your own OP, that many are seizing on it.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
That is not what I am saying. It has given them a much needed opportunity and it would appear, from your own OP, that many are seizing on it.

I don't think anyone is "seizing an opportunity" to shift opinion in a debate. Rather they are taking a much-needed moment of solemn reflection and seriously considering whether the focus of the campaign in recent weeks, the way it has been conducted and the passions it has whipped up have been healthy and becoming of us as a nation or not.

The facts are that a pro-EU, pro-immigration MP has been brutally murdered by a man, who may have a history of mental illness, claiming to be a political activist linked with an anti-immigration, far-right paramilitary and calling for "Britain First," "Freedom for Britain, "British Independence" and death for "traitors" who think otherwise.

These are the facts of what has happened.

Since this tragedy has occurred in the midst of a months' long campaign that has become crystallized around the issue of immigration and a lot of scare stories have flooded the press from pro-Leave newspapers about migrants and the alleged threat they pose to native Britons...why is it political opportunism for some commentators to draw the dots and say that the hostile environment thus fostered has not been civilized or conducive and that it might have inspired or at least contributed to a nutcase committing murder?

Do you think this murder took place in some sort of a vacuum completely disconnected with the referendum campaign?
 
Last edited:

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Do you think this murder took place in a vacuum completely disconnected with the referendum campaign?
Obviously not and hence my comments. I'm thinking more along these lines.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." ~ Rahm Emanuel

After all, it's not like politicians would ever use such disturbing events as a springboard. Sorry. What was I thinking?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I think that is a disgusting thing to write.

Absolutely insensitive and disgusting.

No one, from either side in this dreadful debate, is 'wetting' themselves over the brutal murder of an innocent young woman simply doing her job en route from helping her constituents.
You have a higher opinion of politicians than I do.

Just as Trump started a selfcongratulatory Tweet party in the aftermath of the tragedy in Orlando, I'm sure that there are European politicians planning how to exploit the Cox tragedy.
Maybe I am just cynical because I am accustomed to USA politicians. I still remember the political grandstanding that surrounded the Terri Shiavo case. I put nothing past a politician.
Tom
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
You have a higher opinion of politicians than I do.

Just as Trump started a selfcongratulatory Tweet party in the aftermath of the tragedy in Orlando, I'm sure that there are European politicians planning how to exploit the Cox tragedy.
Maybe I am just cynical because I am accustomed to USA politicians. I still remember the political grandstanding that surrounded the Terri Shiavo case. I put nothing past a politician.
Tom

The nature of this tragedy was a brutal attack upon an unsuspecting member of parliament.

Every politician in that Parliament knows it could have been them rather than Ms Cox who was killed en route from their constituency office.

I have not seen one prominent politician from either side speak who has not appeared genuinely moved by this devastating loss to the UK of a young, promising MP universally liked by all her peers.

Call me naive.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Well the way to prevent these tragedies it to BAN KNIVES in England.
http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=knife+ban+in+england&v_t=client97_searchbox
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/1...ban-long-kitchen-knives-end-daniel-greenfield
http://www.infowars.com/is-this-a-joke-british-police-push-for-ban-on-pointy-knives/

I could go on posting the knife ban but my fingers would get tired of copy and paste.
It appears to me that security might have been a taddy bit relaxed in this
case.
Can you just imagine the horror that KNIVES WERE USED IN HALF OF ALL STABBINGS!?
Hey, didn't come up with this bit of insane drivel.
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings. The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/1...ban-long-kitchen-knives-end-daniel-greenfield

Yes siree. Ban long kitchen knives and confiscate all of them from the populace.
That would serve to create a lot of innocents becoming criminals by law.
It's been a law in Great Britain that air guns must be registered and a license to

purchase is required.
Air guns, as in even a bee bee gun.
In Great Britain crows, called rooks, are rampant and eat farmers seeds almost
as quickly as seeds are planted.
Farmers that want to control rook populations must apply for a permit to dispatch them
and buy a special firearm called a "rook gun" to shoot the things.
Expensive also.


What a load of drivel
People under 18 may not buy knives.
people may carry pocket knives with folding blades 3 inches or less.
Many air guns are lethal and are banned.
Most farmers have licences for shot guns for pest control.
I have never heard of a special rook gun.
Few areas have so many rooks that they are any sort of problem.
There are virtually none at all where I live.
British crows are not called rooks.
the crow familily contains crows, rooks, jackdaws and ravens, jays and magpies all of which are distinct species found in the UK, others are found in other countries.
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
No one, from either side in this dreadful debate, is 'wetting' themselves over the brutal murder of an innocent young woman simply doing her job en route from helping her constituents.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Politics is brutal and surely Cameron's supporters and all those politicians and activists who are pro-immigration and want GB to stay in the EU will capitalize on this tragedy. They will try to sway the public opinion in their favor by appealing to their emotions. They are already doing this with overly dramatic speeches. Personally, I find it a little bit suspicious that this happened just before the referendum but I don't want to go into the conspiracy theories.

Anyway, some looney murdered some politician. I pity the woman and her family but it's hardly a national tragedy. However, the authorities can use this to target all those who hold right wing, controversial or politically incorrect ideas. Cameron has already introduced measures against the so-called "non-violent" extremists. "Hatred leads to murder" slogan can well be used to silence all those who disagree with the government's policy.

Politicians crying crocodile tears. Call me cynical.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Anyway, some looney murdered some politician. I pity the woman and her family but it's hardly a national tragedy.

It is a national tragedy when the slain woman is a member of our parliament and an ardent voice for one side in a national debate murdered at the hands of a man claiming that anyone who disagrees with his vision of Britain but agrees with his victim's vision is a "traitor" who isn't putting Britain "First".

And that this tragedy came at the high point of an increasingly ugly, nasty, divisive and acrimonious campaign that has led to people within the same party viciously denouncing one another in an obscene fashion...this too is significant.

It need not have been so nasty, febrile, scaremongering and divisive. The same message could have been delivered in a more solemn, less hateful manner.

As a nation, we have been diminished by this spectacle.

One should not and cannot ignore the context or the self-proclaimed "why" of this killing.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
It is rare for British MPs to have police or security protection.
Senior ministers often do.
MPs have been attacked whilst holding surgeries on previous occasions but it is extremely rare.
It is unlikely this killing will change any security arrangements.
An MP like any one else is open to possible attack at any time. However the chances are extremely small, and no higher than for the population at large.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Call me naive
OK, you are charmingly naive. European people often seem to be.
As opposed to USA people who are often naive without the charm. Google Trump rally.

There is no doubt in my mind that British politicians are going to use the tragedy for their own ends, whatever those might be.
Tom
 

AnnaCzereda

Active Member
It is a national tragedy when the slain woman is a member of our parliament

Indeed. If it was just an ordinary woman, nobody would make a fuss.

Look. I don't deny she could be a good woman. She looks like an angel on all the photographs. But Cameron is a douche and he will use this tragedy for his own aims. He won't let such an opportunity slip by.

That people are divided is no surprise. Religion and politics always divide people. It's like this in every country, even here in Poland.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
OK, you are charmingly naive. European people often seem to be.
As opposed to USA people who are often naive without the charm. Google Trump rally.

There is no doubt in my mind that British politicians are going to use the tragedy for their own ends, whatever those might be.
Tom

I am sure they will not... They have never used tragedy in that way before. If they tried to, the wrath of everyone would be dumped on their heads, even from members of their own parties.
UK Politics is not nice, but it has its limits.
 
Top