The Authors

[Phasmid]

I've been reading a book by Karen Armstrong called, "A History of God". It's exactly what the title says. In the book, Karen describes how the prophets saw the world around them and how they related this into scripture. It's hard to explain, but my point is, it seems, from what she's saying, that various parts of the Bible could contain bias. Some prophets seem to see God in one way and others see Him in another... is it any wonder so many people find the Bible incoherent?

It's been a while since I've read the book (I didn't even finish it... I can never finish books - I'm too easily distracted) but I was wondering to what extent do Christians here understand the history of the Bible and of God in general? The more I've read up on Biblical history, the more I've doubted the validity of the Christian faith.

 

[Mike182]

I've been reading a book by Karen Armstrong called, "A History of God". It's exactly what the title says. In the book, Karen describes how the prophets saw the world around them and how they related this into scripture. It's hard to explain, but my point is, it seems, from what she's saying, that various parts of the Bible could contain bias. Some prophets seem to see God in one way and others see Him in another... is it any wonder so many people find the Bible incoherent?

It's been a while since I've read the book (I didn't even finish it... I can never finish books - I'm too easily distracted) but I was wondering to what extent do Christians here understand the history of the Bible and of God in general? The more I've read up on Biblical history, the more I've doubted the validity of the Christian faith.

the most interesting part of that book was the start, her speculations on early Religion are very interesting... but that's off topic, and i never finished her book either.

 

[Captain Civic]

I've done research into the NT, and my faith has been strengthened by that. However, when it comes to the OT, I'm really not sure. I haven't researched it yet, but from what knowledge I have, there isn't a lot of ways to verify the OT.

 

[Phasmid]

I've done research into the NT, and my faith has been strengthened by that. However, when it comes to the OT, I'm really not sure. I haven't researched it yet, but from what knowledge I have, there isn't a lot of ways to verify the OT.

If you don't mind me asking, how has it strengthened your faith?

 

[Captain Civic]

If you don't mind me asking, how has it strengthened your faith?

Basically by learning that it could stand up to textual criticism, the abundance of copies, the times when they were written, the fact that it actually slides into history, etc. Things like that. It showed me the things I believed in weren't just verified by other Christians and pastors.

 

[GreenKepi]

Phasmid...(to me)...I realize the very "twisted" Biblical history; however, I personally accept it on the thing called "Faith". I believe that God in His wisdom...filtered down to me what He wished me to have. Someday, when I kneel before Christ, on His Judgment Seat, I know I can say that I've done my best with what He gave me. In those so-called Dead Sea Scrolls there was a copy of Isaiah that is dated at 100 BC - 1100 yrs. difference between the Isaiah copy we had and the one they found, and there are no significant differences. That's just one example that encourages me. However, I'm sure there will be many in these Forums that will pick this to pieces. But...so? You asked "what do we Christians think (?)". This is only one of the things that supports my belief....

 

[lew0049]

I've been reading a book by Karen Armstrong called, "A History of God". It's exactly what the title says. In the book, Karen describes how the prophets saw the world around them and how they related this into scripture. It's hard to explain, but my point is, it seems, from what she's saying, that various parts of the Bible could contain bias. Some prophets seem to see God in one way and others see Him in another... is it any wonder so many people find the Bible incoherent?

It's been a while since I've read the book (I didn't even finish it... I can never finish books - I'm too easily distracted) but I was wondering to what extent do Christians here understand the history of the Bible and of God in general? The more I've read up on Biblical history, the more I've doubted the validity of the Christian faith.

I have not read "A history of God" but I can attempt to give you insight on the question your posed. I did not come to faith in Christ b/c of simply accepting it like many Chistrians - I was an atheist that looked at many religions in search of the "truth" (if there was one).

First, I wil tell you that if you look at only books that attempt to damage the reliability/credibility of the Bible then you are, more than likely, only getting one side of the story. Specifically, you have to take considerations regarding the ancient world/their culture/reasons for writing books. If you approach the Bible with inaccurate perspective then you will see so many reasons to reject the claims. As for the accuracy of the OT is concerned, the Dead Sea Scrolls Scribe provides evidence that some of it is extremely accurate.
Is the Bible 100% accurate? Well, no but then again, what would expect from a document that came from so many sources over 1000s of years? Also, translation errors accounted for alot of these errors - eye glasses weren't invented as well.
I will say that I have found NOTHING in the bible that science/arch. contradicts - factually evidence, not theories.
What specific things are you talking about? Maybe I can give you insight on specific points of interest regarding the authors or anything else. I'm by no meaning an expert but I have done alot of research on the subject. Have a good one.
-Chip

 

[Smoke]

I will say that I have found NOTHING in the bible that science/arch. contradicts - factually evidence, not theories.

That's astonishing.

 

[Phasmid]

That's astonishing.

In the spirit of fairness, care to explain what evidence does contradict the Bible? And don't say evolution! I'm sick of that debate.

 

[Vor]

you remind me of Josiah, not from the bible, he investigated veeeerrrrry deeply and had books and books about various religious issues and eventually he decided to become ignostic (term meaning they don't know either way). What instances do prophets act differently? I guess I'm saying im not sure the specific instance your talking about and why it wouldn't make sense. If your arguement turns out to be something like "Hey, this prophet is herding sheep but this one is fighting." Then just think how many different things G-d does and yet it's written H- is one.

 

[Green Kepi]

Phasmid...I know you did not ask me "directly"; however, may I add my "two-cents" worth? When you say Bible...we must ask, "Which Version"? The original Scriptures were "God-breathed"...but, we don't have any of those originals. Contradictions come into play with the Versions. For example, there are many verses that were not in the oldest, earlier manuscripts of our New Testament...like...1 John 5:7, John 8:7, John 8:11, Luke 22:44, Luke 22:20, Mark 16:17 and Mark 16:18. Because of some of the best-known English editions , such as the King James , were based not on early manuscripts, but later ones, these verses became part of the Bible tradition in English-speaking lands. Ok...everyone...let me know what you think (except...be "gentle" with me :0)...).

 

[Phasmid]

Ok...everyone...let me know what you think (except...be "gentle" with me :0)...).

I think I'd like to look at these older manuscripts.

 

[Green Kepi]

As for examining these manuscripts…do you read Greek? And if you do, they are mere copies, and the great majority of them are copies of copies, yet ultimately (by faith) Christians believe they all derive from the originals.

In the process of copying (as some have noted), however, scribal errors are bound to occur. There is not a single copy totally free from mistakes. A science called textual criticism deals systematically with these mistakes to eliminate as many of them as possible. The most important tools for textual critics are the manuscripts themselves.


In the many thousands of manuscript copies we possess of the New Testament, scholars have discovered that there are some 150,000 "modifications."
These huge numbers are not as bad as it may initially appear.

A look at the hard evidence shows that the New Testament manuscripts are amazingly accurate and trustworthy.Out of these 150,000 variants, 99 percent hold virtually no significance whatsoever.

Many of these variants simply involve a missing letter in a word; some involve reversing the order of two words (such as "Christ Jesus" instead of "Jesus Christ"); some may involve the absence of one or more insignificant words.

Really, when all the facts are put on the table, only about 50 of the variants have any real significance - and even then, no doctrine of the Christian faith or any moral commandment is affected by them.

Now...the Versions are a different story....

 

[Phasmid]

I guess it's the fact that the Israelites used to worship other gods along with Yahweh. Then it seems like some of the prophets decided this was wrong and that the people needed to worship Yahweh alone. It seems like the prophets were the ones dictating the path the religion was going to take... not God. I guess it's a matter of whether you believe God was directing the prophets, or whether you believe the prophets were shaping God in their own image.

 

[Green Kepi]

Yeah...that's why God would get so angry at them. The prophets did not decide that this was wrong...God instructed them that it was wrong. You are correct, some of the priests and so-called prophets were shaping God in their own image. Part of the problem started with a guy called Cush and Nimrod (Gen. 10:8). Cush married Semiramis and after Cush's death, Nimrod married his own mother. Nimrod became a powerful king - she was his mother & queen. He was eventually killed, his body was cut in to pieces and sent to various parts of his kingdom. Semiramis had all the parts gathered except for one part that could not be found. That missing part was his penis. She claimed that he could not come back to life without it and told the people of Babylon that Nimrod had ascended to the sun and was now to be called "Baal" (the Sun God). She further claimed that she came down from the moon in a giant moon egg that fell into the Euphrates River. She became known as "Ishtar" - which is pronounced Easter, and her moon egg became known as the Ishtar egg. She was sometimes called Ashtar or Ashtoreth. God forbid her worship in Judges 2:13-14. In Jeremiah 7:18, she was also called the "Queen of Heaven". See why God and the prophets were constantly attempting to teach the people and pull their worship away from these other "gods"...?
(Check out the background of the Washington Monument' design...you might just find it interesting...also see what the church steeples strangely may have in their design "background")....

 

[Phasmid]

Thanks for the replies, Kepi.

 

[lew0049]

I guess it's the fact that the Israelites used to worship other gods along with Yahweh. Then it seems like some of the prophets decided this was wrong and that the people needed to worship Yahweh alone. It seems like the prophets were the ones dictating the path the religion was going to take... not God. I guess it's a matter of whether you believe God was directing the prophets, or whether you believe the prophets were shaping God in their own image.

You have to keep in mind that 10/11 of the disciples (excluding judas) were looked down upon, tortured, and put to death b/c they were trying to restore an historical fact. Unless we are to believe that they were completely delusional/crazy, it seems as though when the first discple was killed b/c of it, the others would have stopped - if what they were saying was not factual.

 

[lew0049]

That's astonishing.

Enlighten me please.

 

[logician]

I've been reading a book by Karen Armstrong called, "A History of God". It's exactly what the title says. In the book, Karen describes how the prophets saw the world around them and how they related this into scripture. It's hard to explain, but my point is, it seems, from what she's saying, that various parts of the Bible could contain bias. Some prophets seem to see God in one way and others see Him in another... is it any wonder so many people find the Bible incoherent?

It's been a while since I've read the book (I didn't even finish it... I can never finish books - I'm too easily distracted) but I was wondering to what extent do Christians here understand the history of the Bible and of God in general? The more I've read up on Biblical history, the more I've doubted the validity of the Christian faith.

This must be a very narroow history, if it's just about the supposed Xian god.

 

[Phasmid]

This must be a very narroow history, if it's just about the supposed Xian god.

It's not just about one god. The book covers the relationship between Yahweh and the other dieties preasent at the time as well as the relationship between Yahweh and His people.