The Baptist ?

[monti]

Clearly you are trying for something more when you point out this alleged "nonsensical" in the Bible, but I guess the world will never know.

If by that you mean, I would like a better explanation than the frivolous excuses and responses than have already been offered then you are correct.
.
The fact is, John was baptising people and had not been baptised himself. Jesus was baptised when he was sinless. Why? and no one can say what it was he had to repent for.

John says he didn't know Jesus was the messiah until he saw the sign of the dove, that confirmed to him he was gods son!! Then had second thoughts about his messiahship. he saw the ecending dove a message from gos and then had second thoughts!!? There are many inconsistencies when it comes to the story of John the baptist.
None of his story makes any sense as it has come down to us via the scriptures.

Why didn't Jesus resurrect John said to be the greatest prophet? What happened to him when it is said he had been killed on the whim of a woman via her mother, a woman (a key player) that is not even named in the gospels as the one being responsible for the death of the greatest prophet?
Why does it appear that the gospel writers want to keep this woman's identity secret?.
They do this often including when it comes to very relevant and important figures that play key roles in the death of Jesus and christianity as a faith..
One minute John is dead and then alive and then dead again
by being beheaded. How many heads did he have?! How many times did he die?
It seems to me you/belivers don't want to recognise these ambiguous statements in the bible and would rather not be challenged on them because they are not consistent with what you want to, and prefer to believe.

These simple and obvious questions should be simple enough for any believer to answer given that there has been 2,000 years to come up with reasonable answers.

The truth is as you say "the world will never know", but this won't stop the religious believer peddling what they want to believe as gospel truth,and has left the whole subject of christianity open to nothing but assumption, conjecture and guessing.
All my opinion, of course.

 

[monti]

No, it's based on my study of the Old Testament. Yet since the Bible does not directly say what it means in that instance then there is some speculation about it.

Yes the bible does that not just in this instance, but quite
often doesn't it. Indeed there are many half stories just simply left suspended in mid-air.

 

[monti]

Are you saying there is no real evidence for Jesus Christ being divine?

there is none. I don't mind being proven wrong.

[/QUOTE]

 

[monti]

The books say a lot about JtB

The "books" say very little about John in my opinion.
Why did John continue to have disciples after he had told the world "to follow jesus"?

 

[outhouse]

The "books" say very little about John in my opinion.
Why did John continue to have disciples after he had told the world "to follow jesus"?

Im sure not everyone was happy about a new teacher.


So the authors said this, not JtB correct?

And which book?


I see it as Jesus taking over JtB movement. Much of the parables Jesus used could have been JtB parables.

We will never know who said what, and what we can attribute to either one.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

If by that you mean, I would like a better explanation than the frivolous excuses and responses than have already been offered...

The fact is, John was baptising people and had not been baptised himself. Jesus was baptised when he was sinless. Why?

I answered this. It was neither frivolous nor an excuse. The Bible says that Jesus was baptized in order to fulfill righteousness. "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." Matthew 3:15

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes the bible does that not just in this instance, but quite
often doesn't it. Indeed there are many half stories just simply left suspended in mid-air.

You need to study the relationship between the Law and how it justified man in the sight of God and the relationship to how the sacrifice of Jesus justified man in the sight of God. God sees those who believe in His son as without sin. God also sees those who followed the Law as having their sin covered. I didn't just make this up or assume boulship. There is a very good foundation for this being true.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The "books" say very little about John in my opinion.
Why did John continue to have disciples after he had told the world "to follow jesus"?

Why does this matter?

 

[metis]

If one has a concordance and looks up "forgive" and its variations, they might be surprised in what they actually find.

 

[ChristineES]

I don’t see anything in that verse that states the Baptist was a sinner or had sinned.

We believe all men and women are sinners. It also didn't say John never sinned. I think it a big clue when Jesus said that "He who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he [John the Baptist]. But you go ahead and translate any way you wish to.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I don’t see anything in that verse that states the Baptist was a sinner or had sinned.

Try these, "All have sinned..." & "The wages of sin is death." Now, did JtB die?

 

[monti]

Try these, "All have sinned..." & "The wages of sin is death." Now, did JtB die?

Yes according to the scripture. But so did Jesus, but was supposedly raised from the dead. Which brought me to the question of why was it that jesus did not raise the greatest prophet?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes according to the scripture. But so did Jesus, but was supposedly raised from the dead. Which brought me to the question of why was it that Jesus did not raise the greatest prophet?

Why was he the greatest prophet? What was he prophesying?

 

[monti]

We believe all men and women are sinners.

yes, you do but that is not true is it?

It also didn't say John never sinned.

and neither does it say he did. Indeed everything points to him being 'righteous and without sin'
but that is of course a matter of opinion and interpretation.

I think it a big clue when Jesus said that "He who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he [John the Baptist]. But you go ahead and translate any way you wish to.

yes I have I have researched that verse and found "to be born of women" to be an insult, it means lowest of the low...
But that is also an opinion of extra biblical sources. As was the line from Simon peter in the gnostic gospels saying " let Mary leave us for women are not worthy of life".

But you go ahead and translate any way you wish to.

I am more interested in your/the believers interpretation, this is why I am here, I have come here to ask questions. Do you find this difficult or unsettling? because you shouldn't, you should welcome it.

 

[monti]

Why was he the greatest prophet? What was he prophesying?

Good question, I have never understood the point of John The baptist at all. when any priest could have been chosen to "prepare the way".
We didn't need the story of his conception, we didn't need to know his family background, we didn't need to know he jumped in the womb of his mother when Mary turned up at the house of Elisabeth.Yes, the embryo John kicked and jumped in the womb of his mother we are told, when jesus turned up in the womb of Mary, but he tells us he "didn't know him" when he appeared at the water's edge down at the river Jordan.

 

[outhouse]

I am more interested in your/the believers interpretation, this is why I am here, I have come here to ask questions. Do you find this difficult or unsettling? because you shouldn't, you should welcome it.

I dont see your position being backed by apologetics or secular reasoning.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I am more interested in your/the believers interpretation, this is why I am here, I have come here to ask questions. Do you find this difficult or unsettling? because you shouldn't, you should welcome it.

Is sounds more to me that you are here with an agenda and not a search for Biblical perspective.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Good question, I have never understood the point of John The baptist at all. when any priest could have been chosen to "prepare the way".
We didn't need the story of his conception, we didn't need to know his family background, we didn't need to know he jumped in the womb of his mother when Mary turned up at the house of Elisabeth.Yes, the embryo John kicked and jumped in the womb of his mother we are told, when Jesus turned up in the womb of Mary, but he tells us he "didn't know him" when he appeared at the water's edge down at the river Jordan.

Well since you can't answer that question then there is no reason to answer why Jesus did not resurrect him.

 

[outhouse]

Good question, I have never understood the point of John The baptist at all. when any priest could have been chosen to "prepare the way".

He did not prepare the way.

Jesus followed John, and it was a emberrassment for the unknown authors who wrote these books.

Jesus learned from John .

John wasnt just any teacher, he is the one who taught Jesus.

, we didn't need to know he jumped in the womb of his mother when Mary turned up at the house of Elisabeth.Yes, the embryo John kicked and jumped in the womb of his mother we are told, when jesus turned up in the womb of Mary, but he tells us he "didn't know him" when he appeared at the water's edge down at the river Jordan.

Our oldest account Mark, doesnt deal with any mythological birth accounts at all.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

He did not prepare the way.

Jesus followed John, and it was a embarrassment for the unknown authors who wrote these books.

Jesus learned from John .

John wasn't just any teacher, he is the one who taught Jesus.

These are two separate issues.