Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
Wash your mouth out with soap. I had my eyes open, no such thing as a ""mindless and blind process", to quote our greatish sort of expert on everything he knows nothing about, CotW.
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The battle of evolution vs creationism
- Thread starter bobhikes
- Start date
Wash your mouth out with soap. I had my eyes open, no such thing as a ""mindless and blind process", to quote our greatish sort of expert on everything he knows nothing about, CotW.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses
The one with its own satellite, the ones that made you, and the Mama of them all
"1 Viruses are not alive: They do not have cells, they cannot turn food into energy, and without a host they are just inert packets of chemicals.
2 Viruses are not exactly dead, either: They have genes, they reproduce, and they evolve through natural selection."
"14 In fact, scratch the whole concept of us versus them. Half of all human DNA originally came from viruses, which infected and embedded themselves in our ancestors egg and sperm cells."
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses | DiscoverMagazine.com
Our moon of course was formed by a collision with a planet the size of mars in the solar systems early history. It was a VERY BIG collision and could have taken earth out completely.
The one with its own satellite, the ones that made you, and the Mama of them all
"1 Viruses are not alive: They do not have cells, they cannot turn food into energy, and without a host they are just inert packets of chemicals.
2 Viruses are not exactly dead, either: They have genes, they reproduce, and they evolve through natural selection."
"14 In fact, scratch the whole concept of us versus them. Half of all human DNA originally came from viruses, which infected and embedded themselves in our ancestors egg and sperm cells."
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses | DiscoverMagazine.com
Our moon of course was formed by a collision with a planet the size of mars in the solar systems early history. It was a VERY BIG collision and could have taken earth out completely.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
There was something wrong with practically every word in that post. I had to start somewhere.
I think I'm still reeling over how that could be possible.
Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
I had two different women suffer miscarriages....plus the picture you see is my 3 year old son...so yes... I know how babies are made.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Okay, so then you've answered your own query.
Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
There was something wrong with practically every word in that post. I had to start somewhere.
I think I'm still reeling over how that could be possible.
CotW's post just gave me an attack of the vapors. And i agree with you, how can anyone sprout such dogmatic unthinking.
Announcement: if things go as planned, Call_of_the_Wild and me will finally be having our "Creationist explanation for the ERVs" debate on Saturday, 6:30 AM Arizona time. That's 8:30 AM if you live on the east coast as I do. We are going to be holding it on the Mibbit online chat network. The channel will be #ERVs. For those interested in watching, feel free to stop by. For the sake of fairness, I must ask that you avoid entering the debate yourself (unless CotW chooses to allow it). I will also be recording what is said so that those who do not get a chance to see it live will be able to read a transcript of it later.
As a side note, Mibbit sometimes has this tendency to randomly "kick" people out of chat. If this happens, you may have to sign back in under a different username. If you see me drop out of chat unexpectedly, then it was likely that I was kicked but will soon be returning. Just wait for me!
And now back to your regularly scheduled program.
As a side note, Mibbit sometimes has this tendency to randomly "kick" people out of chat. If this happens, you may have to sign back in under a different username. If you see me drop out of chat unexpectedly, then it was likely that I was kicked but will soon be returning. Just wait for me!
And now back to your regularly scheduled program.
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Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
The debate wont just be about ERV's, but evolution in general.
Actually, the first debate will focus on an ERV explanation from a creationist point of view only. No macroevolution in that one at all. If you want to do a debate about macroevolution, then we will confine that to a second debate independent of the first one. I said as much in one of my earlier posts. So here is how I have this planned:
Debate 1: Creationism only. Evolution not even mentioned.
Debate 2: Evolution only. Creationism not even mentioned.
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McBell
Unbound
I predict this debate to run along the lines of:
God Did It!
Prove it.
look around you.
Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
are we taking bets?
I probably am stupid for even trying to do this, since I know nothing of use will come of it. I can be stubborn at times, though.
If Call insists that God designed ERVs into organisms, then he'd be saying that God designs deception (because whole ERV elements have identical structure to retroviral insertions), disease (some ERVs cause disease) and uselessness (many have closed reading frames which prevent polymerase from actually producing proteins from them) into organisms as well. It would be more sensible for him to say that ERVs are indeed retroviral insertions that happened after the "Fall", since at least then these particular problems are avoided.
If Call insists that God designed ERVs into organisms, then he'd be saying that God designs deception (because whole ERV elements have identical structure to retroviral insertions), disease (some ERVs cause disease) and uselessness (many have closed reading frames which prevent polymerase from actually producing proteins from them) into organisms as well. It would be more sensible for him to say that ERVs are indeed retroviral insertions that happened after the "Fall", since at least then these particular problems are avoided.
Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
ERVs - Evidence for the Evolutionary Model this page provides a great introduction to the topic and can put to rest CotW's arguments concerning the ERV issue once and for all.
Of course, you might have to simplify it a bit for a debate given the mental constraints in evidence.
And besides, a fun feature of this site is the Kent Hovind countdown. ...then there is the response of the (none)Discovery Institute regarding the posted essay and the authors rebuttal.
Of course, you might have to simplify it a bit for a debate given the mental constraints in evidence.
And besides, a fun feature of this site is the Kent Hovind countdown. ...then there is the response of the (none)Discovery Institute regarding the posted essay and the authors rebuttal.
That's actually the very same page that I found out what ERVs were from. I had to read it more than once to understand it (and I still have issues with some of it) but it's pretty much an iron-clad evolution defense once one has a proper understanding of it.
Simurgh
Atheist Triple Goddess
Call_of_the_Wild
Well-Known Member
I would prefer to have a debate on evolution as a whole, and my thing is this; give me your best evidence for evolution...if you think ERV's are the best evidence for evolution, then bring. If not, then bring something else.
But we can play it how you want to play it
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
And on top of that you have transposons, which is a DNA sequence that can have changed place in a genome. We share a bunch of unique such transposons with the chimps. For this to happen by pure chance? It's a number much worse than all the "probability for the universe to come into existence by pure chance" numbers we've ever seen. And if God did it by design? Then God intentionally is leaving traces of family relationships for the heck of it. Or simply, God is using evolution for creating life, which is the least harsh solution of the three.
And then we also have conserved synonymous codons we share with our ancestors (apes, mouse, ...).
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averageJOE
zombie
I would prefer to have a debate on evolution as a whole, and my thing is this; give me your best evidence for evolution...if you think ERV's are the best evidence for evolution, then bring. If not, then bring something else.
But we can play it how you want to play it
This is just like Ken Ham. You would rather argue against evolution instead of for creationism.
Precisely why I'm splitting the debate in half.