The best way to corrupt youth?

[Sunstone]

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

--Nietzsche


Was Nietzsche onto something there? Is that the best way to corrupt a youth, or are there even better ways to corrupt a youth?

For instance: Many people today would say that our sexualized culture corrupts youth. In light of that, Nietzsche's point might seem a bit old-fashioned. What do you think?

 

[Lightkeeper]

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.



--Nietzsche

Was Nietzsche onto something there? Is that the best way to corrupt a youth, or are there even better ways to corrupt a youth?

For instance: Many people today would say that our sexualized culture corrupts youth. In light of that, Nietzsche's point might seem a bit old-fashioned. What do you think?

A truly thinking person won't be corrupted by culture. I think Nietzsche was correct and it still stands today. You hone your tools with diversity.

 

[Green Gaia]

Interesting idea... I think he was on to something. I must re-read some Nietzsche.

 

[Sunstone]

Maize and Lightkeeper, it kind of interests me that Nietzsche and Mark Twain would agree on this point: The surest way to corrupt youth is to teach them to think alike.

 

[Green Gaia]

Well, Twain was an atheist. So not too surprising...

 

[Sunstone]

Interesting idea... I think he was on to something. I must re-read some Nietzsche.

For me, one of the keys to understanding Nietzsche was the realization that the "will-to-power" could be reasonably "translated" as "the need for self-actualization". Until I made that realization, I didn't quite understand what was so important about the will-to-power in Nietzsche's thought. Then it all clicked for me.

What's so corrupting about teaching a youth to value conformity? Well, from Nietzsche's standpoint, conformity is at odds with self-actualization, and he values self-actualization higher -- much higher -- than he does conformity.

Another way of putting the same point is to say that you can't be true to yourself if all you're trying to do is be true to someone else's standards.

Not just Nietzsche, but a lot of notable men and women, have made precisely these same points.

Still, it amazes me that when people are asked "What threatens youth", the most common answers given to that question have to do with sexuality -- and not with being misled from being true to oneself.

 

[Sunstone]

You hone your tools with diversity.

Humans are a little bit like an ecosystem: Diversity is not just nice, it's not just an ideal. Like an ecosystem, we need diversity in order for ourselves to flourish.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Humans are a little bit like an ecosystem: Diversity is not just nice, it's not just an ideal. Like an ecosystem, we need diversity in order for ourselves to flourish.

The world would collapse without diversity.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Still, it amazes me that when people are asked "What threatens youth", the most common answers given to that question have to do with sexuality -- and not with being misled from being true to oneself.

Well, sex is a very dominant topic for teens. Many are pressured to conform their sexuality in a specific way, or to behave sexually in a certain way, and in doing so they stray from being true to themselves. In a sense then, this still fits with what Nietzsche is saying. The only problem is that it is very narrow--it only deals with sexuality. There are many different aspects of life where people follow the crowd instead of doing their own thing. Then again, to pressure a teen into following corrupt sexual standards can corrupt the teen pretty quickly. "Following the pack" in general can corrupt people. Bowing to sexual pressures, as teens often have the problem of doing, is just another way to follow the pack.

 

[Michelle]

This thread is becoming very interesting. I have found myself wondering many times who I would be if I could have been me at an early age. I feel our experiences help shape who we are and MANY of my earlier experiences would have been different. Most parents think they are being a good parent by teaching a child how to think but I believe it is more important to teach a child to think.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, sex is a very dominant topic for teens. Many are pressured to conform their sexuality in a specific way, or to behave sexually in a certain way, and in doing so they stray from being true to themselves. In a sense then, this still fits with what Nietzsche is saying.

I stand corrected. It fits perfectly with what Nietzsche was saying.

...to pressure a teen into following corrupt sexual standards can corrupt the teen pretty quickly.

I have a quibble with your use of the term "corrupt sexual standards". I don't think the main problem that teens face in this area is the challenge of recognizing and avoiding corrupt sexual standards. Most teens do a pretty good job at avoiding corrupt sexual standards. For instance: most teens are not rapists, pediophiles, molesters, exhibitionists, etc. It isn't corrupt sexual standards that teens have to watch out for, because most teens are aware that those standards are corrupt and are not about to adopt them.

Instead, teens need to watch out for the tendency of popular culture to recommend a one-size-fits-all approach to sexuality. Popular culture is big on saying that what is good for someone else is necessarily good for you too. For instance: It would have you believe that just because some people are ready for sex at 17, everyone should be ready for sex at 17. And that's balderdash! Different people are ready for sex at different times. There is no one size fits all about sex. And there is nothing wrong with being an unique and precious human being.

The important thing -- the crucial thing -- is to learn how to listen to your own heart and then to follow it.

 

[Sunstone]

This thread is becoming very interesting. I have found myself wondering many times who I would be if I could have been me at an early age.

I have a close friend who at age 55 has told me that he wonders how much more he could have accomplished to date if he had only known better than to try to be a "Good Christian" rather than be himself. (I think he was raised in one of those Churchs that emphasize conformity more than self-development.) Interesting question, isn't it? Makes you realize how precious the time we have on this earth is.

 

[robtex]

Humans have a natural tendancy towards being bias. It is how they act and upon those prejudices that is a reflection of their character. People seem to learn quite a lot from non-verbal instruction...by observing how others act and behave towards those who are noticably different their is a transfer of information and learning. Because of this I would say it would be impossible to not be some exposure to favortism towards a particular group or section. It is our nature to group and comforting to group with those we feel kinship to or aspire likelyhood with. The coruption of this, in my estimation, is the natural dividing of the two or mutual exclusion of one pre-divided group or section over the other. With this thought I would concur that propogation of group A over B can exaggerate the emotional (not rational) alliance of a younger person from one to the other without examining the idea that both can in fact co-exist with or without frequent interaction. When I was in college I met a number of buddiest and taoist and the one thing would tell me was that Americans were so funny about dicotomy. To them it was prefectly natural for opposites to exist on any level, from love and apathy about the same person, to fear and courage about various majors to intimidation and trust about the same person. I learned it to be true for me at that time on many levels, opposites seem impossible to co-exist for me at the time, As they (buddist and taosit) put it to me at the time, dicotomies are your (at that time mine) absolutes for mutual exclusion.

 

[robtex]

I have a close friend who at age 55 has told me that he wonders how much more he could have accomplished to date if he had only known better than to try to be a "Good Christian" rather than be himself. (I think he was raised in one of those Churchs that emphasize conformity more than self-development.) Interesting question, isn't it? Makes you realize how precious the time we have on this earth is.

I want to make a quick point on this post. Being a "Good Christian" already subdivides us and them..christians and non...what about being a good person or just plain good? why does it have to be defined within a strictly Christian paradign?

 

[Sunstone]

I want to make a quick point on this post. Being a "Good Christian" already subdivides us and them..christians and non...what about being a good person or just plain good? why does it have to be defined within a strictly Christian paradign?

I see him for lunch today...I'll ask him why.

 

[Irenicas]

Nice. Well, I have to say that I suspect that Nietzche was onto something then. It is bigotism and prejudism that causes the most fundemental problems in our society, and I think that is at its root because at an early age many of us are corrupted into conforming.

 

[Simon the Cat]

To get back to the original question - what corrupts youth - what do you mean by corrupt? Make them into adults? Open their eyes to the idea that things maybe more complex than they seem? To make them cynical - without knowledge of what they are being cynical about?

Everyone eventually grows older and ceases to be a youth. I tend to think of the process as being less that of "corruption" and more of maturing. As for Nietzsche's quote, I would suspect he was either speaking of very young children or didn't have much experience around kids at all to think that they were such free thinkers and rebels.If anything my experience and observation is that children put pressure on one another to conform more than many adults do.

 

[Runt]

I don't think it is necessarily the BEST way to corrupt youth, but it is certainly A way. There is no problem enjoying discussions with people who think like you, but it can never really be more than preaching to the choir. New ideas only come when you butt minds with people who think DIFFERENTLY than you... and true understanding of others only comes when you interact with them.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Humans have a natural tendancy towards being bias. It is how they act and upon those prejudices that is a reflection of their character. People seem to learn quite a lot from non-verbal instruction...by observing how others act and behave towards those who are noticably different their is a transfer of information and learning. Because of this I would say it would be impossible to not be some exposure to favortism towards a particular group or section. It is our nature to group and comforting to group with those we feel kinship to or aspire likelyhood with. The coruption of this, in my estimation, is the natural dividing of the two or mutual exclusion of one pre-divided group or section over the other. With this thought I would concur that propogation of group A over B can exaggerate the emotional (not rational) alliance of a younger person from one to the other without examining the idea that both can in fact co-exist with or without frequent interaction. When I was in college I met a number of buddiest and taoist and the one thing would tell me was that Americans were so funny about dicotomy. To them it was prefectly natural for opposites to exist on any level, from love and apathy about the same person, to fear and courage about various majors to intimidation and trust about the same person. I learned it to be true for me at that time on many levels, opposites seem impossible to co-exist for me at the time, As they (buddist and taosit) put it to me at the time, dicotomies are your (at that time mine) absolutes for mutual exclusion.

I don't think humans have a natural tendancy towards being bias. I think we are taught that. I know my relatives have tried to sway me to their way of thinking and use punishment tactics if I don't think their way. I think if a person is raised in an open household and is not taught to fear diversity you won't find bias. Once taught bias I think it can be unlearned.

 

[Lightkeeper]

I have a close friend who at age 55 has told me that he wonders how much more he could have accomplished to date if he had only known better than to try to be a "Good Christian" rather than be himself. (I think he was raised in one of those Churchs that emphasize conformity more than self-development.) Interesting question, isn't it? Makes you realize how precious the time we have on this earth is.

I think you can be yourself and be Christian also. One can use their religion as an excuse not to take responsiblity for themselves. It takes work to find out who you truly are and some people want to find all kinds of excuses why they haven't done it. If we have been taught to think for ourselves no religion can hold us back. We will see the deep insights of religion that spring us forward. I know people who have been "Good Christians" and they have found who they truly are. I think the true message of Jesus was to look within and be who you truly are. Sometimes we corrupt ourselves with laziness.