The Bible Alone is Not Enough

[Scuba Pete]

Let me ask what should be a clarifying question: do you believe that you have the fullest understanding of God's revelation among men on this earth?

I would hope that this isn't the case. It would be a sad sad state of affairs if true. Actually, I think the only one to know the answer to your question is the Spirit.

 

[Quiddity]

And fulfill them he did! The sacrificial lamb given ONCE FOR ALL (check out Hebrews for an explanation of this)

Now there is something we can agree on, but I can only imagine what you think "fulfill" means. It does not mean "void out" to me.

Why? If God's command to LOVE is written on our hearts, then we KNOW we should be talking to others.

What was written in the hearts of men was "natural laws" Pete. Nothing in my heart tells me to follow a man named Christ. My heart evolved into that once I extended faith. I hope you see the difference.

I think the authors speak in unison. We are FREE. God's commandment is written on our HEARTS. That's the commandment we need to follow. What's so hard about that?

And yet, I feel FREE. It only becomes hard when we twist what is written in our hearts. Or did you think it was impossible to twist what is in our hearts?

 

[Quiddity]

I would hope that this isn't the case. It would be a sad sad state of affairs if true. Actually, I think the only one to know the answer to your question is the Spirit.

If you don't mind Pete, I would like to add to that and say...I, Pete, and everyone else knows as much as God wanted us to know to enable salvation possible. I'd be surprised if you didn't agree with me.

 

[Scuba Pete]

He may be correct, he may be flawed, but either way the flock is not bound to believe it until it goes through the proper channels.

In direct contrast to this, the Scriptures ask us to personally test ALL THINGS and to make our decision based on how the Spirit gives us understanding. IOW, the Spirit is my "proper channel".

 

[quietlight]

I would hope that this isn't the case. It would be a sad sad state of affairs if true. Actually, I think the only one to know the answer to your question is the Spirit.

So you leave open the possibility of gaining further understanding of God's revelation if the Spirit were to work through another man who was sent to teach you?

 

[Quiddity]

In direct contrast to this, the Scriptures ask us to personally test ALL THINGS and to make our decision based on how the Spirit gives us understanding. IOW, the Spirit is my "proper channel".

History, reason, and the bible CLEARLY shows the problems that can arise with this. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, it just means it's not the final means to coming to a conclusion.

More then once I have questioned the priest in humility and love and the problem never went any further then that.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Now there is something we can agree on, but I can only imagine what you think "fulfill" means. It does not mean "void out" to me.

Nope... it's not null and void: IT'S PAID OFF! I am no longer subject to it! When I pay off my mortgage I don't nullify it, I have FULFILLED it! I no longer have to pay that mortgage anymore! I am FREE from it's rules, not because I have voided it, but because I have fulfilled it.

What was written in the hearts of men was "natural laws" Pete. Nothing in my heart tells me to follow a man named Christ. My heart evolved into that once I extended faith. I hope you see the difference.

We must be reading different texts Victor.

II Corinthians 1:20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. NIV

Hebrews 8: "The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. NIV

And yet, I feel FREE. It only becomes hard when we twist what is written in our hearts.

Or when you corporately twist what the scriptures teach. I am glad you "feel" FREE Victor. I AM FREE! Free of any modern day Pharisee. Free of the guilt I once treasured. Free of the rules of the Law.

Or did you think it was impossible to twist what is in our hearts?

II Corinthians 4:1 Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. NIV

Thank God, he works through these Jars of Clay for HIS GLORY.

 

[Scuba Pete]

So you leave open the possibility of gaining further understanding of God's revelation if the Spirit were to work through another man who was sent to teach you?

I would hope that I was humble enough to listen to a donkey, if that is who God sent. How about you? Are you willing to humble yourself to learning? Even from a heretic such as myself?

 

[Scuba Pete]

If you don't mind Pete, I would like to add to that and say...I, Pete, and everyone else knows as much as God wanted us to know to enable salvation possible. I'd be surprised if you didn't agree with me.

Of course I agree. Everything is there for everyone to understand as they ALLOW the Spirit to guide them.

 

[Scuba Pete]

History, reason, and the bible CLEARLY shows the problems that can arise with this. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, it just means it's not the final means to coming to a conclusion.

More then once I have questioned the priest in humility and love and the problem never went any further then that.

Well, I quoted some history earlier on... so how can I disagree? If you follow man rather than following the Spirit of God, you are SURE to fail. That's a promise.

 

[quietlight]

I would hope that I was humble enough to listen to a donkey, if that is who God sent. How about you? Are you willing to humble yourself to learning? Even from a heretic such as myself?

So the next question would be this: do you think God would ever use another human to teach you something?

Am I willing to humble myself to learning? I sure hope so.

 

[Scuba Pete]

So the next question would be this: do you think God would ever use another human to teach you something?

I have learned a lot from humans in the past and I am sure I will learn from them in the future. Some by their good, and some by their evil. God works through the imperfect to demonstrate his perfection.

Am I willing to humble myself to learning? I sure hope so.

Me too!

 

[quietlight]

I have learned a lot from humans in the past and I am sure I will learn from them in the future. Some by their good, and some by their evil. God works through the imperfect to demonstrate his perfection.

Me too!

So if God sends you someone who is closer to Him, has learned how to better listen to the Holy Spirit, shouldn't you listen - even if what this person is teaching you may not initially sound correct?

Allow, for a moment, a hypothetical situation. You have been told by God that he will send to you a person who will bring you closer to Him through instruction - and that the Holy Spirit will work through this man. Should you not humble yourself enough to listen to this man given that it has been assured to you by Christ Himself that this person will not lead you astray?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Apparently,

you don't think I am "listening". Listening does not mean to ACCEPT outright. Whatever you say must be TESTED as this is right to do. You, yourself must be tested as well.

I hear your arguments, and am testing them as we speak. You too, should do the same.

The Bible allows us to hear the SAME truth and come away with different understandings.

So if God sends you someone who is closer to Him, has learned how to better listen to the Holy Spirit, shouldn't you listen - even if what this person is teaching you may not initially sound correct?

Allow, for a moment, a hypothetical situation. You have been told by God that he will send to you a person who will bring you closer to Him through instruction - and that the Holy Spirit will work through this man. Should you not humble yourself enough to listen to this man given that it has been assured to you by Christ Himself that this person will not lead you astray?

 

[quietlight]

Apparently,

you don't think I am "listening". Listening does not mean to ACCEPT outright. Whatever you say must be TESTED as this is right to do. You, yourself must be tested as well.

I hear your arguments, and am testing them as we speak. You too, should do the same.

The Bible allows us to hear the SAME truth and come away with different understandings.

Now don't make the mistake of trying to guess what I am thinking about you - I never said that you are not listening.

Now how about the hypothetical I posed?

 

[Scuba Pete]

But God has not told me "this". If he did, I must have missed the memo.

 

[quietlight]

But God has not told me "this". If he did, I must have missed the memo.

Thus the hypothetical - are you not going to answer it?

 

[Scuba Pete]

If GOD were to speak, and I could VERIFY it was God and not a Bill Cosby voice over, then I am sure I would. I would HOPE that I would. Forgive my unbelief.

 

[quietlight]

If GOD were to speak, and I could VERIFY it was God and not a Bill Cosby voice over, then I am sure I would. I would HOPE that I would. Forgive my unbelief.

What - you don't listen to Bill Cosby as heavenly word?

Forgive me for taking this a step further then...if GOD were to speak, and you could VERIFY that it was God (and not a Bill Cosby voice over), and he sent a GROUP of men, not just one man, with the promise that this group of men would lead you closer to Him through instruction and their very real inspiration from the Holy Sirit - and that the Holy Spirit will not allow them to go astray. Would you follow God's instruction?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Dude... go ahead and drop the other shoe. Thanks in advance!