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the bible and the big bang.

Mike182

Flaming Queer
charles brough said:
We are not longer idolitors, annimists, animal worshippers, ancxestor worshipers or engage in human sacrifice! We progress by ultimately discarding old mythologies and going over more to cause and effect. It is just that old ways too stubbornly persist some times. . .

well, actually, many neopagans today do follow spiritualities based on animal and ancester spirits and the like.

welcome to the forum :) perhaps you would like to introduce yourself to the rest of the forum here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21
 

johannes

Member
Mike 182; your quote;
do you do a lot of writting? if so, it might be worth your investment in some voice recognition software, i'd suggest "Dragon Naturally Speaking" the latest version is 9.0, and it works wonders!


I am an South African, went to school in a small Afrikaans town where we actually learn to speak proper English and then you leave school and you never speak English again and you loose it all.
Only years later when you try to write something in English you find out you have a problem. Never the less I can always send you my Afrikaans version!!??

Thanks Mike for trying to help me, if possible I would like to have more information on how it can help me, but I must tell you, if my writing is bad my speech might be worse.
I appreciate your concern.
I don’t write a lot, although this manuscript took me more than twenty years to first study the bible and then to finish it and I would like to write more. Johan.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
johannes said:
Mike 182; your quote;
do you do a lot of writting? if so, it might be worth your investment in some voice recognition software, i'd suggest "Dragon Naturally Speaking" the latest version is 9.0, and it works wonders!


I am an South African, went to school in a small Afrikaans town where we actually learn to speak proper English and then you leave school and you never speak English again and you loose it all.
Only years later when you try to write something in English you find out you have a problem. Never the less I can always send you my Afrikaans version!!??

Thanks Mike for trying to help me, if possible I would like to have more information on how it can help me, but I must tell you, if my writing is bad my speech might be worse.
I appreciate your concern.
I don’t write a lot, although this manuscript took me more than twenty years to first study the bible and then to finish it and I would like to write more. Johan.

ok, i didn't know where you were from. i'm impressed with the amount of time you've spent on these projects :)
 

logician

Well-Known Member
astarath said:
easy boys the question is this for me I believe that science will one day prove the existence of God. The big bang I feel happened but it was a reaction. What was the action that caused it and who performed the action. Before all creation genesis provides the names of those beings. God and the Spirit

Please define your god concept. Then explain how it can be proven.
 

zoro

Member
astarath: Your statement and questions: " The big bang I feel happened but it was a reaction. What was the action that caused it and who performed the action" doesn't seem to adequately reflect what's known about nature's ability to "fluctuate".

For example, all tunneling phenomena (such as radioactive decay) "happen" even though there is no "cause" as we normally understand the term. Thus, an alpha particle (for example) is emitted by a polonium-210 nucleus even though the particle "shouldn't" have enough energy to escape. Stated differently, experiments show that nature "fluctuates", e.g., giving more energy to an alpha particle than it "should" have, i.e., than it would have, if our usual ideas about "cause and effect" were valid at "quantum-mechanical scales".

Relative to your question "what… action… caused…it [the Big Bang]?", the suggestion is that in such "fluctuations" in the original "total nothingness", some symmetry was broken (perhaps "parity", perhaps "the God particle" formed, or perhaps a "string" of positive energy "tied itself in a knot"), resulting in the Big Bang, leading to the separation of energy into positive and negative parts that today we call "the universe", with some of the positive energy in what we call mass and the negative energy being what we call "the vacuum", but with the total energy (and momentum, electrical charge, etc.) still summing to exactly zero, as it was before the Big Bang. That is, there is still "nothing" here, but it's been separated into positive and negative components.

That's what Edward Tryon meant, in his 1974 Nature article (vol. 248, p.396) entitled "Is the Universe a Vacuum Fluctuation", when we wrote

"In answer to the question of why it happened, I offer the modest proposal that our Universe is simply one of those things which happen from time to time."

Similarly, it's what Alan Guth meant (as quoted on p. 129 of Stephen Hawking's book "A Brief History of Time"):

“It is said that there’s no such thing as a free lunch. But the universe is the ultimate free lunch.”

If such ideas interest you, you may want to look at my (free!) online book which you can find by using "zenofzero" in a Google search. I wrote the book explicitly wrote for my teenage granddaughter, but hope that it'll be of some value to other teenagers as well; it's entitled "Love Letters from Grampa -- about Life, Liberty, and the Zen of Zero." The "Zen of Zero" phrase refers both to the universe creating itself from "the original nothing" (i.e., zero) and to resulting influences of such ideas on how we might want to live our lives. For example, there's Einstein's famous remark:

"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, [then] wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
 

Cykes

New Member
joeboonda said:
That is not the same as the Big Bang Theory. With the Big Bang, there is the bang and the stars are made and then earth, and then us. With the Bible, the sun, moon, and stars are not formed until the 4th day. There is no relationship to this theory and the creation, its just a theory. Interesting is that they say all matter was condensed into a space the size of a period then, boom it explodes, whatever. I can more easily believe an almighty God spoke it into existence, but to each their own.

Religion is bull you tell me something i will give you an answer... The big bang theory is just as viable as a almighty god creating the universe... Since when does one being possess so much power that they can create everything... There is no way... Nothing in the bible makes sense somethings in the bible confront other things said by reigious leaders or in the bible itself... I grew up catholic i had a communion and never got confirmed because my mind became mature and understood that region is fraud... Someone wrote the bible GOD didnt write the bible... The bible is nothing but stories that someone claims happened... Heaven and Hell are not even real... My personal opinion on heaven and hell are that they do not exist instead they exist only in our dreams... When we die we supposedly fall asleep or lose consciousness or however you want to look at it... and when we sleep we usually dream... So i believe when we die and had a good life our dreams become our heavens and when our bodies decenegrate they leave our concious in our dream for all eternity creating the impression of heaven... Hell on the other hand is the same thing... Hell is basically said in the bible that all sinners or non believers go to hell to be tortured for all eternity... Well i believe that when you have a bad life or you do bad things in your life when you die instead of dreaming you actually have a nightmare and when your body deteriorates your concious actually gets trapped in the nightmare for all eternity... My theory is actually just as viable as heaven or hell because none of this can be proven if my theory is correct then i can create heaven or hell for my self choosing the way i live my life which in fact could classify me as a god... PLEASE READ THIS AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF MY THEORY!?!?!? :yes:
 
Mike182 said:
Welcome to the forum!

the specific part of the forum you put this thread under in new age belief, under neopagan and revival religions. because this thread is about science and the Bible, i'm going to move it to the science vs religion forum.

on a seperate note, you might be interested to read an article i wrote over a year ago on this very subject, feel free to post comments at the end of it :)

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31974


Hello all! I did go to the link and got as far as the 2nd paragraph! Then I stumbled on this "gem:"

"""Scientists start by criticising Genesis as being totally wrong because it breaks the creation process down into 6 days, which is not enough time."""

Scientists don't "start" with "creation" because they dismiss it ouright as impossible. No one has ever created anything out of nothing! They really have no interest in how long this "creation" process Bible mythological lore describes---six days, six years, six eras---it doesn't matter. The Earth is billions of years old.

I would have read more, but to miss represent what scientists say and do makes me dismiss it out of hand and go on to something else.

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com (430 hits PER DAY in January!)
 

kaysquared89

New Member
I believe it is all up to how you interpret the bible. I mean if you believe that the earth was literally formed in 7 days, then I guess the big bang theory doesn't fit into that equation.

Personally, I like to believe that the 7 day creation is symbolic for the whole time it took to create the world. Those days could have been years,tens,hundreds,thousands...only God knows! Besides, the Big band theory doesn't really have a cause, right? it just "happened", well did you ever think that the cause could have been God? I mean science and Religion don't always have to feud...they could in fact be related and probably many more puzzling questions in science can be answered with one word...God.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Being and Atheist I can not say, with a certainty, how the universe was created. Scientist have theorized how this has happened but 100, 500, 1000 years from now we may have more definitive scientific proof of this.

Religious scholars and religious people will still have their gods to thank for making it all happen.

I lean toward the science because it helps me to understand it all much better than a scripture would.

Science does not condem, or rule out the existance of an omnipotent-omniscient making it happen. Science is silent on making any such distinction. this is because there are so many faiths and so many sects within those faiths that science would have to defend itself against. Science is not here to prove that the bible is false. The religious community sectism is doing a good job at that.

Should we look toward religion to provide the answers to our questions? HECK NO!!!!
I say this because of the many different faits and the many different sects in these faiths. The religious community is sometimes at odds with its own religious thoughts as well as with other religious faiths.

Scientist are calculating how old the universe is and how it came to be. is it an exact science. i don't think so. but i challenge any religious person to show that God did it.

Although we are talking big bang or bible.... the first thing you have to understand is that the bible does not talk about, at least not that i can find, the creation of the universe. The bible does not talk about the CREATION of the earth at all. The bible is not complete (nicea counsel compiled it and then called it the bible).

The bible seems to be stories that were handed down through the ages. Some stories resemble other ancient writings that are regarded as (Myth). We must ask ourselves...what make the bible truth and all others a myth?

The bible is silent on dinosaurs, ancient aquatic life, ancient man and how some ancient animals are related to present day animails....exp (sabortooh and present day lion).

Some one here said that science and religion can co-exist. They have for a very long time. Science on the other hand does not need the bible's help to explain its position.
 
Perhaps people pay too much attention to what physicists, astronomers and cosmologists think might have happened billlions of years ago! They are simply trying to figure out what may be largely unknowable for centuries to come. Their picture is changing and will continue to. I rely entirely on science, but I take what the cosmologists say with a lot of tolerance. Scientists know it is speculative. The only reason people are so absorbed with their speculating is that we humans are intently interested in our origins and that of the universe---always have been and always will be.

In regard to the "big bang" theory, I agree that it takes a lot to believe that all the matter and energy in the universe was once all bunched up in a little ball! It then raises the question of how did it get all bound up in that little ball---for which they have no explanation as far as I can tell.

However, all that aside, it is a lot easier to believe it than to believe everything suddently appeared out of nothing complete with trees and grass, animals and germs, and then, amazingly a couple of people also materialized out of I.D. and they then interbred incestuously to grow into a lot of races that have ultimately brought our numbers up to about 7 billion people!

Wow! That really does take a lot of faith!!

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com (430 hits PER DAY in January!)
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
charles brough said:
However, all that aside, it is a lot easier to believe it than to believe everything suddently appeared out of nothing complete with trees and grass, animals and germs, and then, amazingly a couple of people also materialized out of I.D. and they then interbred incestuously to grow into a lot of races that have ultimately brought our numbers up to about 7 billion people!

Wow! That really does take a lot of faith!!

how so? you have just ascribed an equal sense of implausability to both of them, why ridicule one and not the other?
 
Interesting posts . . . I bet you folks can answer some questions I have about the origins. The Biblical accounts I have read just seem like blank statements that raise more questions than answers. For example, we read “let there be light” but that just raises more questions than answers. Did God just LET it happen or did God ORDER it to happen? After all, letting something happen does not ensure it WILL happen---not unless it just required God's permission to actually come about. But how did having permission to appear managed to CAUSE it to appear? Who or what had been holding light back awaiting God's permission? If God's permission was all that was needed, light must have already been created and just waiting there (where?) for permission to be materialized. When, then, was it actually first created and by whom?


Or did light just WANT to be created? If it wanted to, what caused it to want to? Why would light WANT to be created? Does light have an “intelligence”? Does it only do what God tells it to do?


Perhaps God had, instead, given a command. He was not giving permission but was ordering light to appear. If so, who or what took the order and fulfilled it? All God had to do was put in an order while leaving it up to someone or something else to actually create light and have it on demand. God just “pulled the switch.” Who or want actually “created” the light so it would be there ready for God when He ordered it?


Or was God ordering Himself to create light? That would mean God tells Himself what to do! He talks to Himself! I have to ask how often does God talk to Himself and why? Can't he do something without having to order Himself to do it?


I realize this is an awful lot of questions, but Hey, you know the Bible better than I. I'm sure you can explain it so my questions are answered.


But, perhaps they are not in the Bible but you have the answers anyway. I would surely love to read them. Perhaps you have seen the accurate data you have accumulated the answers from verified investigation and research. If so, please let us all know as we who are Bible-deficient need good answers.


Charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
 
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