the bible canon

[jaybird]

* The apocrypha say they are man's writings, the 66 books say, "The Word of the Lord"

* The apocrypha uses a different tone than the 66

* The apocrypha has doctrines that contradict the 66

how do you know this? are there any apocrypha source text pre rome?

 

[jaybird]

Hi Folks..

Billiardball;

Yes it is VERY simple - when the council first met - the religious leaders of various factions,sects DID NOT HAVE ANY INPUT INT HE SELECTION PROCESS - NONE AT ALL !!

Constantine had NO religious agenda at all - his only concern was clearly matters of civil unrest, infighting among these hundred plus new forming religions and factions..He ORDERED them to come together - FORCED them to cooperate - Constantine,basically,ordered the various and seperate "christian sects", and MADE THEM assemble all their sacred texts that their faith(s) were built upon...He then had his own scribes and scholars assemble a unified doctrine from all the texts so presented - a total of 2231 manuscripts - were wittled down to make a complimentary four book narrative - and thus your modern bible canon was MANUFACTURED TO ORDER ..

Those present - although heads of the various and often vastly different sects - were by no means the equal of the Roman Emporer, neither in power, status or even intelligence...He fully dominated them, it is clear..One early church founder, Sabinius Bishop of Hereclea,was himself in attendance at the famous meeting, and he wrote down the details for the world to see..He said the following of the Nicea meeting..

"Excepting Constantine himself and Eusebius Pamphilius, they were a set of illiterate, simple creatures who understood nothing"
(Secrets of the Christian Fathers, Bishop J. W. Sergerus, 1685, 1897 reprint).

See clearly,the leaders of these sects,had no actual input in the formation of the "catholic religion"..They understood nothing of what was occurring, and were merely in attendance with their documents as ordered by the emporer..THEY did not even decide that which was to be included or discarded as doctrine - they had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in what was to putinto their "bible" - that task was given to that man mentioned above - Eusibius, an aide of Constantine..His instructions were thus :



Understand now..?..Constantine - sick of civil war among his subjects - ORDERS them to "play nicely" - and gives them NO CHOICE in what was to happen...HIS SCHOLARS decided "christian doctrine" and that is undeniable..

something that never made sense, rome killed Jesus, killed Christians, killed Jews, burned torah scrolls, took over Jerusalem, burned down the Lords temple, and after all that we are lead to believe our Lord makes rome the new center for His church? does Jesus ever mention this? do any of the prophets? from what i have read, every time the bible mentions rome its not so good. are there any other examples in the bible where our Lord uses those that persecuted His people to be an example to the world? why did we never see these things with the Canaanites, Babylonians or philistines?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jaybird; Yer it just does not make sense does it..?..

The Father that Christ speaks about - was TOTALLY UNKNOWN to the Jews - not even their god who we call Yahweh, nor the Angels that one created - NONE OF THEM - had ever encountered this PRIMAL and SOVEREIGN spirit that Christ ALONE teaches is of...Best advise here for all of us if we want to know this truth - then read any and all manuscripts that were banned BY the church - find out what they ACTUALLY say - and we see WHY they dont want us to know this truth...THEIR god Yahweh, in only AN ANGEL He said - not a true god at all - Christ said it very clearly, many times many places.. He has absolutely no affiliation to the Jewish religion whatsoever - openly disavows it - openly leads people AWAY from the temple form of worship comlpetleley - AWAY from the influence of a false god and its priesthod - tells them all directly that the Pharisee is corrupt, does not know His truth and would not share it even if they did...

Jaybird - understand this very clearly - that god in the bible - that "chosen people" - they are of a LESSER god Yahweh - this is NOT MY FATHER - make no mistake...Christ does not condone, defend or agree with THAT god of the Jewish faith - he came to give us the TRUTH of that god and to teach of an ENTIRELY UNKNOWN AND LEGITIMATE PRIMAL SPIRIT - SOURCE of ALL CREATION - He says most clearly that Yahweh of the Jews is NOT that primal spirit at all, but is claiming a false sovereignty over us, keeping us ignorant and trapped in spiritual domination..Then of course, He alone proved His claims of Divnity, proved their god was indeed much MUCH lesser - as He alone did spur of the moment DYNAMIC miracles that understand here - NO PRIEST OF YAHWEH COULD MATCH....That is crucial to realise, as see, such things as magick and Divine intervention, were VERY COMMON, well known, well documented - everyday part of their lives and culture - everyone knew and accepted such things as real - but NONE could match the sheer awesome power of Christ....I could explain all this in great detail - but for now - will just point out the obvious - no priest of Yahweh, could for instance - heal a leper - Christ did it with just a touch and a spoken word - no priest of Yahweh could raise the dead either - but again,all HE needed was His DIVINE WILL and for Him alone it was done....

He told them straight - your ogd is a cheat, aliar and is tricking you - check out even in the bible itself - John - tells us of a first confrontation with the Jews -after Christ healed a leper and caused a big commotion in public - they approach Him and demand to know who He is and why He is saying and doing these things..He tells them straight to their faces - your god is NOT my Father but a liar and trickster - He says they dont even know His Father - and H ewill explain why that is so elsewhere - in plain English - He is telliing them that they worship the wrong god, a much lesser and bogus god - and that is WHY THEY cannot do the things that HE ALONE can do......They went away, thought about what He said - worked out that His truth was a direct threat to their own power and authority - faced a very real choice - follow the lesser god still, keep power and status safe and secure - or follow this Christ man who wishes to REPLACE the temple form entirely - dismantle it, do away with it, make it fully OBSOLETE....I could even tell you here that these priests could not even "ask their god for guidance" about this new man among them, Christ - they had NO DIRECT LINK TO THAT GOD - for it ACTUALLY stopped speaking directly to them and their last legitimate recognised Prophet was a man named Malachi - some HUNDREDS Of years before Christ arrived - and I could explain that in great detail too, why this was happening - why the god was silent to the Jews when Christ came among them - it all leads into their fateful decision - to hold and covet their own power and status and cling to the lesser god - even though it was silent itself, had no answers to give - and even though they knew the truth by the things Christ said and did..They rejected Him in favour of their own MORTAL power and authority..

So they plot to have Rome MURDER Him to silence His truth and threat....Those miracles are CRUCIAL to understand - something about Christ made Him a direct threat to the established religion - and it was these two facts - you have the wrong god He said - and I prove my Divinity by these acts - they saw He IS legitimate -saw people flock to Him and shun the temple just as He advised - so they acted to silence Him....

You ask about apocrypha - so I tell you here please read the ORIGINAL disciple gospels - claimed by them directly - claimed to be first hand direct testimony Christ and Disciple - and really given what we now know, we have no reason to doubt their authenticity.....Seek out especially ORIGINAL John - now known as SECRET John - for it tells us the truth and ORIGIN of the ANGEL Yahweh - how it came to be and how we can me to follow after..But honestly ,read them all for the full narrative - it soon begins to make perfect sense...Here - a good place to start - I will offer a couple of quotes that show us beyond any doubt at all, that Christ has no affiliation whatsoever to the Jewish god Yahweh...First form Judas :

“ Come, that I may teach you about secrets no person has ever seen. Forthere exists a great and boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has seen, in which there is a great invisible Spirit,which no eye of an angel has ever seen,no thought of the heart has ever comprehended, and it was never called by any name.“

Well thats pretty clear - yes..?..SECRETS He said now being revealed by Him alone, that NO MORTAL HAD EVER KNOWN - and look close Folks - the god and Angels above also, have NEVER ENCOUNTERED THIS TRUTH EITHER...He says there ACTUALLY EXISTS - its REAL - a totally new and unknown REALM - a whole other UNIVERSE - that NONE HERE have ever had access to !! Let it sink in deep - see the obvious - this Great Spirit He teaches us of - CAN NOT BE YAHWEH !! Not at all - He just told us Yahweh and its angels have NEVER ENCOUNTERED THIS SPIRIT OR REALM....These are SECRETS that nobody had ever encountered before He said - but look - the Jews already encountered their god and know Yahweh INTIMATELY - this Great Spirit IS NOT YAHWEH - Our Father - is NOT Yahweh !!

Elsewhere - especially in that SECRET gospel of John - He will explain EVERYTHING..Who and What the Father is - and how Yahweh and its angels, then mankind came to be created - Yahweh IS a CREATURE - just like You and I, made in the same process as all creation, but NOT the "source" of the creaton process at all - despite what it claimed about its superiority Christ said at first it was ignorant, then it learned truth and decided to act to deceive mankind - hence He came to free us with the legitimate truth..Many times and places He will repeat this claim in a word or saying that reinforces this obvious seprate and distinct lesser god...Here for instance - form Thomas - a clear statement that shows us again, Christ has NO AFFILIATION to the Jewish god at all, and wishes to distance Himself from that belief at every opportunity, telling the Disciples in plain terms that His Father is a NEW and unknown legitimate Spirit..From Thomas :

They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "The Roman emperor's people demand taxes from us."
He said to them, "Give the emperor what belongs to the emperor, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine."

Again very clear and plain to see - Yeshua says there are THREE truths in the world now..Seperate and DISTINCT - the Roman emporer is obviously mortal life and mundane concerns - the "god" is obviously the Jewish god Yahweh whom thy all know and thus far and follow - and now He says HE CHRIST, is SEPERATE AND DISTINCT from both mortal life AND the god of the Jews..He says that because as stated - He obviously wants the Disciples to fully realise that He has NO AFFILIATION to either the mortal world (not human but fully Divine) - and NO AFFILIATION to the god of the Jews, whom He has just classed Himself as seperate and distinct from and He is ALWAYS stressing this..Once we begin to know His full narrative, then we see WHY He says such things REPEATEDLY - Our Father that HE ALONE knows and teaches us of - is NOT the Jewish god at all - the religion fully knows this but could not allow his truth to become common knowledge for as said, they themselves would be OBSOLETE - no longer in power - all authority and credence lost....So they murdered Him and twisted his truth to ft itheir established tradition - made up half truths in a sanctioned book that they then ENFORCED upon us to convince us all that "their truth" was the real truth and the only truth allowed under their domination - the rest is twisted history as we know..
As always - for those with ears to hear...

 

[jaybird]

Hi Folks..

Jaybird; Yer it just does not make sense does it..?..

The Father that Christ speaks about - was TOTALLY UNKNOWN to the Jews - not even their god who we call Yahweh, nor the Angels that one created - NONE OF THEM - had ever encountered this PRIMAL and SOVEREIGN spirit that Christ ALONE teaches is of...Best advise here for all of us if we want to know this truth - then read any and all manuscripts that were banned BY the church - find out what they ACTUALLY say - and we see WHY they dont want us to know this truth...THEIR god Yahweh, in only AN ANGEL He said - not a true god at all - Christ said it very clearly, many times many places.. He has absolutely no affiliation to the Jewish religion whatsoever - openly disavows it - openly leads people AWAY from the temple form of worship comlpetleley - AWAY from the influence of a false god and its priesthod - tells them all directly that the Pharisee is corrupt, does not know His truth and would not share it even if they did...

Jaybird - understand this very clearly - that god in the bible - that "chosen people" - they are of a LESSER god Yahweh - this is NOT MY FATHER - make no mistake...Christ does not condone, defend or agree with THAT god of the Jewish faith - he came to give us the TRUTH of that god and to teach of an ENTIRELY UNKNOWN AND LEGITIMATE PRIMAL SPIRIT - SOURCE of ALL CREATION - He says most clearly that Yahweh of the Jews is NOT that primal spirit at all, but is claiming a false sovereignty over us, keeping us ignorant and trapped in spiritual domination..Then of course, He alone proved His claims of Divnity, proved their god was indeed much MUCH lesser - as He alone did spur of the moment DYNAMIC miracles that understand here - NO PRIEST OF YAHWEH COULD MATCH....That is crucial to realise, as see, such things as magick and Divine intervention, were VERY COMMON, well known, well documented - everyday part of their lives and culture - everyone knew and accepted such things as real - but NONE could match the sheer awesome power of Christ....I could explain all this in great detail - but for now - will just point out the obvious - no priest of Yahweh, could for instance - heal a leper - Christ did it with just a touch and a spoken word - no priest of Yahweh could raise the dead either - but again,all HE needed was His DIVINE WILL and for Him alone it was done....

He told them straight - your ogd is a cheat, aliar and is tricking you - check out even in the bible itself - John - tells us of a first confrontation with the Jews -after Christ healed a leper and caused a big commotion in public - they approach Him and demand to know who He is and why He is saying and doing these things..He tells them straight to their faces - your god is NOT my Father but a liar and trickster - He says they dont even know His Father - and H ewill explain why that is so elsewhere - in plain English - He is telliing them that they worship the wrong god, a much lesser and bogus god - and that is WHY THEY cannot do the things that HE ALONE can do......They went away, thought about what He said - worked out that His truth was a direct threat to their own power and authority - faced a very real choice - follow the lesser god still, keep power and status safe and secure - or follow this Christ man who wishes to REPLACE the temple form entirely - dismantle it, do away with it, make it fully OBSOLETE....I could even tell you here that these priests could not even "ask their god for guidance" about this new man among them, Christ - they had NO DIRECT LINK TO THAT GOD - for it ACTUALLY stopped speaking directly to them and their last legitimate recognised Prophet was a man named Malachi - some HUNDREDS Of years before Christ arrived - and I could explain that in great detail too, why this was happening - why the god was silent to the Jews when Christ came among them - it all leads into their fateful decision - to hold and covet their own power and status and cling to the lesser god - even though it was silent itself, had no answers to give - and even though they knew the truth by the things Christ said and did..They rejected Him in favour of their own MORTAL power and authority..

So they plot to have Rome MURDER Him to silence His truth and threat....Those miracles are CRUCIAL to understand - something about Christ made Him a direct threat to the established religion - and it was these two facts - you have the wrong god He said - and I prove my Divinity by these acts - they saw He IS legitimate -saw people flock to Him and shun the temple just as He advised - so they acted to silence Him....

You ask about apocrypha - so I tell you here please read the ORIGINAL disciple gospels - claimed by them directly - claimed to be first hand direct testimony Christ and Disciple - and really given what we now know, we have no reason to doubt their authenticity.....Seek out especially ORIGINAL John - now known as SECRET John - for it tells us the truth and ORIGIN of the ANGEL Yahweh - how it came to be and how we can me to follow after..But honestly ,read them all for the full narrative - it soon begins to make perfect sense...Here - a good place to start - I will offer a couple of quotes that show us beyond any doubt at all, that Christ has no affiliation whatsoever to the Jewish god Yahweh...First form Judas :



Well thats pretty clear - yes..?..SECRETS He said now being revealed by Him alone, that NO MORTAL HAD EVER KNOWN - and look close Folks - the god and Angels above also, have NEVER ENCOUNTERED THIS TRUTH EITHER...He says there ACTUALLY EXISTS - its REAL - a totally new and unknown REALM - a whole other UNIVERSE - that NONE HERE have ever had access to !! Let it sink in deep - see the obvious - this Great Spirit He teaches us of - CAN NOT BE YAHWEH !! Not at all - He just told us Yahweh and its angels have NEVER ENCOUNTERED THIS SPIRIT OR REALM....These are SECRETS that nobody had ever encountered before He said - but look - the Jews already encountered their god and know Yahweh INTIMATELY - this Great Spirit IS NOT YAHWEH - Our Father - is NOT Yahweh !!

Elsewhere - especially in that SECRET gospel of John - He will explain EVERYTHING..Who and What the Father is - and how Yahweh and its angels, then mankind came to be created - Yahweh IS a CREATURE - just like You and I, made in the same process as all creation, but NOT the "source" of the creaton process at all - despite what it claimed about its superiority Christ said at first it was ignorant, then it learned truth and decided to act to deceive mankind - hence He came to free us with the legitimate truth..Many times and places He will repeat this claim in a word or saying that reinforces this obvious seprate and distinct lesser god...Here for instance - form Thomas - a clear statement that shows us again, Christ has NO AFFILIATION to the Jewish god at all, and wishes to distance Himself from that belief at every opportunity, telling the Disciples in plain terms that His Father is a NEW and unknown legitimate Spirit..From Thomas :



Again very clear and plain to see - Yeshua says there are THREE truths in the world now..Seperate and DISTINCT - the Roman emporer is obviously mortal life and mundane concerns - the "god" is obviously the Jewish god Yahweh whom thy all know and thus far and follow - and now He says HE CHRIST, is SEPERATE AND DISTINCT from both mortal life AND the god of the Jews..He says that because as stated - He obviously wants the Disciples to fully realise that He has NO AFFILIATION to either the mortal world (not human but fully Divine) - and NO AFFILIATION to the god of the Jews, whom He has just classed Himself as seperate and distinct from and He is ALWAYS stressing this..Once we begin to know His full narrative, then we see WHY He says such things REPEATEDLY - Our Father that HE ALONE knows and teaches us of - is NOT the Jewish god at all - the religion fully knows this but could not allow his truth to become common knowledge for as said, they themselves would be OBSOLETE - no longer in power - all authority and credence lost....So they murdered Him and twisted his truth to ft itheir established tradition - made up half truths in a sanctioned book that they then ENFORCED upon us to convince us all that "their truth" was the real truth and the only truth allowed under their domination - the rest is twisted history as we know..
As always - for those with ears to hear...

as much as i like many of the gnostic concepts, the demiurge is one im not sure i follow. if the Lord from the Hebrew bible is Satan, demon or lessor being, then why does Jesus use and quote from that book? also does Jesus not make reference to the Lord of the Hebrew bible as His Father, the one that sent Him?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jaybird; Yer, its real complicated now isnt it..?...We have over 2000years of misconceptions to break down first now before we get His original truth..

This first issue - a demiurge - many people assume it is an "adversary" of Our Father - but Christ Himself never says any such thing...NEVER mentions ANY INDIVIDUAL spirit - no mention of "satan" or "devil" as an "actual person"..When He speaks of such things, He means generally, evil and "satans influence" comes from the lower, lesser, MORTAL MIND - following that guidance alone will lead us to commit IGNORANT acts - and this is always "evil" compared to the fully Sentient Divine mind...Our mind is broken to put it bluintly - and using this broken mind for our truth leads to calamity always...We cannot be happy when we have this broken mind - ignorance is NOT bliss and so stuck with this broken mind we ALL have we are literally surrounded by ignorant people who simply dont know any better and this leads them to do evil in the world...

A demiurge - a lesser god that tricks - YES - Christ DID say that the Jewish god is lesser - and He did say it tricks us into a false obediance and captivity - and He did say it is doing this out of its own SELF IGNORANCE - at first....The religion will take this base truth - and literally INVENT AN ENEMY !! They will do this because Christ IS their "enemy" in a very real world sense He is directly opposed to their institution AND the god they follow, as His truth will destroy their power base totally - so they seek to hold to it ever more..Christ did NOT choose the opposition - His only aim is to give us legitimate truth - CHOICE that the god Yahweh will not give us bu keeping us IGNORANT of the greater realms....He gave them a fair chance to hear His claims and decide for themselves and He wanted to do this first IN PRIVATE just He and the priests - except mankind with its FREE WILL - lesser broken mind once again, spoiled the intent and the act of one man - a leper whom Christ heals first - because of this one man and his broken mind, free will, mortal guidance - his act caused ALL the confrontation that would follow and started a chain of "evil" events....

See it from Christs perspective..He KNOWS FOR SURE the god Yahweh is a false god - and He knows this for sure as said,because He Himself is the LEGITIMATE Divinity....He knows for sure - the ORIGINS of the god Yahweh, and the REASONS why it is acting the way it is...But look - I must stress this here adamantly - HE, does NOT place any blame when He recounts this - none at all - He does NOT say "Yahweh is evil demiurge opposed to my Father" - NOTHING LIKE THAT....All that "demiurge opposition", will come much later when RELIGION becomes established "in his name", and start to twist His truth to suit THEIR purpose as I shall explain... All Christ says about Yahweh - is that first, it was a mistaken creation, an accident that was unintended - and that because of this, it became hidden out of shame and fear, and a SEPERATE realm was created for it, HIDDEN form all the rest of creation..Like literally - an ENTIRE UNIVERSE (this one we inhabit), is created SEPERATE and HIDDEN , and Yahweh is placed here IMPRISONED here ALONE - withut any prior knowldge whatsoever !!

Christ does NOT blame this one for ANYTHING - says the way it is, as if it regrettable it happened at all but doesn tpass any judgement as to who to blame here - and this is why He is here at all , to remedy this Divine error...So a question arises here to any intelligent mind - HOW can a DIVINE even make an "error" at all..??...

He explains it all FULLY - tells us HOW AND WHY CREATION HAPPENS - and to understand Yahwehs plight and our own later plight, we need to understand first then, how and why it happened..Without giving endless quotes from scripture (original gospels of the disciples - read especially secret John) - here I will just paraphrase as I do, modern plain English..In the FIRST and Primal realm of the Full Divine He said - There is He the Christ - and there is a FEMALE counterpart - a CONSORT - a Goddess if you will - He names Her SOFIA and together with a third Being, Our Father, they exist as a TRINITY BEING - like personality - modes within the same Divine mind (exactly the same way our mind works of course)....The Father is the "boss" the part that CHOOSES and IMAGINES - and then Sofia and Christ combine to make it come forth..Im trying to keep it simple, but He explains literally EVERYTHING...He says that when they combine in union, Creation comes forth - and together BEFORE this universe existed, they had already created a vast and glorious realm, fully populated with worlds and Souls to inhabit them an fully under the domain of the Trinity...

Understand then - a Divine MIND calls forth the material worlds and gives them form and structure...Whatever they conceive of in the Fathers Imagination, WILL(power) come to be created as solid, experiental reality..He said this power, this ability is UNSTOPPABLE, the natural inherant power of the full Divine - truly this creation process is KARMA !!

SOFIA though - personality within that fully Divine mind, equal in creative Karmik power to Christ Himself - just one time - had like a - stray thought..? - a day dream..?..An accident..??..She experimented..??...All apply I guess...Christ said She had an "unguarded impulse" - like a daydream She wonders "what if I create ALONE without the Male Christ, what would happen..?....." - and look - because SHE IS DIVINE - Her Karmik power is UNSTOPPABLE and INSTANT He said, and Her impulse given WILL and intention, so it came forth as REAL right before Her eyes....Only - it was IMPERFECT - it was Christ said - MALFORMED - indeed, He described it specifically - said it resembles a DRAGON..Sofia is shocked - scared - ashamed - these emoiton cause Her to act as said - She creates a SEPERATE realm,and hides this malformed ANGEL there alone - tells no on at all - tries ot forget it - never attemtos to create alone again...

So questions arise to an intelligent mind - HOW can She do this without the Trinity knowing, if they are DIVINE they know everything, so HOW can She manage DECEPTION here at all..??...

Well - realise - its all MIND - the Trinity - are not "seperate" but exist TOGETHER as ONE BEING....PERSONALITY wihtin that mind cause the REALITY of it to come forth..When the mind DIVIDED - calamlity happened - evil happened - less than perfection happened....Like one partt of the mind - lied to the rest of it Self...Not so hard to follow and understand - after all - we mortals are made inTHAT image of mind - and we manage to deceive and trick ourselves all the all the itme dont we..??....Within the mind, one little egoic personality will see the world one way - and naother little egoic personality will see it different - and we have many such little egoic personalities, swap and change as necassary - and yet its all just our own ONE MIND..The Primal mind - only has THREE persooalities, and yet Christ said, She, Sofia the feminine managed to deceive the others..

What they call forth becomes SOLID tangeable - ALIVE - She calls forth this malformed Angel alone - She NAMES IT - not yet Yahweh, first it is called YALDABOATH by She who CREATED it..As said, She causes THUS universe to form, and places the Agel here - isolated, alone and fully cut off, hidden on purpose from the higher realms..So - the Angel - awakes to its existance here alone - without any external source at all - and it has some of the Divine power that its Mother and creator has - it is SEMI Divine - precisely I mean, it CANNOT use DIVINE IMAGINATION as the TRINITY does to create anything NEW - but - this lesser Angel CAN use its semi divine mind to shape and create from the ENERGY OF THE UNIVERSE...IT didnt create the universe here - but it CAN manifest its Will THROUGH this source of pre existant energy...Read Genesis CAREFULLY and it fully backs this up - when we first encounter this "god" in this universe it says it created heavens and the Earth - BUT before this first act it said DARKNESS and WATERS existed - the god "moved upon them" to create the rest in successive order days 1 - 6.. Clearly - t didnt create this that they call "waters"..This commodity was already present it seems - and that would tie in exaclty with what Christ said.. The "bare essential ingrediants" - the energetic source was already present - all Yahweh did was apply its own mind to fashion this energy into the universe we now have - it didnt CREATE it - it is NOT the SOURCE of the Divine energy - it is a craftsmen, using the porocess as we all do - indeed, it is a CREATURE - a product of the process,end result of it,as we all are - Yahweh was CREATED same way You and I are..

So it awakes here to its own Self awareness - realises WOW whatever I think of,this energy forms for me - IAM GOD - drunk on its own power it calls forth others, naturally,unstoppable Karma - it creates its own Angels first and look then - here, compared to them all, it is SUPERIOR - it IS god to THEM - as they know NOTHING ELSE - ISOLATED yet and still seperate from the TRUE Divine above...Yahweh calls forth loads of Angels creates heavens as we term them, which are really just seperate ENERGETIC layers to the same construct - astral layers applies just as well as the term heaven - and of course eventually the Earth is formed - most solid layer, where individual mortal life is fashioned - but NOT MAN YET - not at first - for a while, only animals and plants exist here..

So - it creates its own ANGELS and each time it does this it must directly imbue them with a portion of the overall energy supply - literally, it must "share its divintiy" with them directly - and so,its own power diminsishes with each successive heirachy...This is why it forcefully dominates us all so violently - desperate to hold onto its full power base - BECAUSE it MUST share and divide itself in order to create anything - it CAN NOT CREATE as the DIVINE DO - can NOT call forth "new creation from no place and no time" - cannot literally IMAGINE the new creation and make it BE - it can only shape and mould that which already existed here - severely handicapped - DEMI god - demiurge....Thus entire universe is a recycling of the SAME energy first deposited here by SOFIA..SHE created the universe we inhabit - Her Angel Yaldaboath whom we know as Yahweh, has full dominion here - but can only arrange the energy to suity - cannot create anyting new by force of Will as the TRUE Divine do...This sharing of divine essence is the reason for Yahweh guarded jealousy and powermongering ways...

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks....

So Yahweh awoke to its Self ALONE and ISOLATED - and has this ability to from worlds and bring forth other Souls and so it does just that..Creates Angels, heavens, and ll beleive he is supreme god all worship him in truth AS god as they have no other to encounter - YET.....For a while Yahweh IS god supreme HERE in this isolated seperate realm - so hes not really lying to us..I my Self feel rather sorry for him - so did Christ it seems - for He is about to come and do him a huge huge favour truth be told..Christ will go to extraordinary lengths actually to put all this right - Sofias first mistake, and Yahwehs actions that followed leading to mankind unnartural domination...

In that primal High realm of the Trinity - creation continues always...Christ said that He and Sofia created a nested reality - a heriachy - and at the equivalant level - there are 360 similar universes to THIS one (except this one is seperate the rest joined together)..This level of Creation - the Angels that directly control the heirachy - are not "gods" but known as ARCHONS.. Yahweh is an Archon - and this entire domain is fully under the direct influence of his semi divine mind ( is the clearest way to state it)..Sofia and Christ though - realms above - continue to create - seeking to call forth the PERFECT FORM - a vessel / avatar / bodyform - that can be used to house the FULL Divine Presence - such that for instance - Christ can take a mortal form directly

They manage to create this of course - and it is this event that is the turning point for it all..Remember - still yet - seperate isolated and hidden realms - then they create this PERFECT avatar - they call it ADAMUS - and Christ said this event is so awesome that it sends a rippling shockwave out through the entire Creation - like every Soul becomes aware of what the Divine have achieved..Understand - they are ALL - all creation itself - linked THROUGH THE ENERGY - the FIRST ESSENCE created by the Father of All.......Let it sink in...

Christ said they cal forth ADAMUS - deposit the FULL DIVINE MIND into a SINGLE UNIQUE FORM - and this is so awesome, culmination of the entire creation process - the very thing that they have worked towards - linked altogether as ONE MIND the entire creation becomes aware that ADAMUS NOW EXISTS..

See the implications - ALL SOULS share this Divine knoweldge literally "shouted" and proclaimed to One and All - NO HIDING - MIND to MIND each and every Soul in existance becam awatere of the LIVING DIVINE TRUTH - so awesome an event, that Christ says this isolating "barrier" - this veil that hides our universe,finally becomes broken - it fails when Adamus is created - and for the first time ever - these two seperate forgotten realms - FINALLY become aware of the others existance..

According to Christ these are real world events that actually happened...No allegory here at all - just a recounting of a series of actuai events that lead directly to our plight..Can we even imagine..?>..HERE this isolated realm - all is well gods in his heaven as they say, and all FULLY BELIEVE Yahweh IS supreme because as far as they all know he IS ACTUALLY supreme...Then out of nowhere - BOOM !!!!! EVERYONE all at once UNDENIABLY knows for sure they are wrong - misled - WTF is that GREAT POWER that can do THAT above us..???....

So - quite rightly - they want to go and investigate this event - find its source - seek TRUTH...They begin to question - ask first for permission - one Angel here specifically - Lucifer we are told, chief of the entourage openly approaches Yahweh on the subject...The bible says this Angel challenges Yahweh and so will become devil cast out - but as we see already the TRUE dragon is ALREADY cast out the TRUE heavens - and the bible is a twisitng of truth here - Yahweh IS the dragon cast out...lol...but anyways - Lucifer - goes to Yahweh and asks for permission to investigate this great power above - Let me TAKE MY THRONE - seat of power - INDIVIDUAL MIND - and rise above to seek out the high heavens....

Yahweh - already jealousy guarding his own power for reasons explained - is absolutely THREATENED here by this GREAT power above - and knows now, he is about to lose authority completely - so he just outright declares a BAN - and says NO WAY - IAM GIOD and you will have no others before ME...Then to kind of mark hi sauthority and supremacy an dot show off a little to gain them back on side - he says to his chiefs - in plain English of course - Look - thats pretty cool above aint it...?...But its nothing special really - come here - LET US DO THAT ALSO - let US make a man after THAT IMAGE...And so - together - remember they SHARE divine power - he NEEDS them to cooperate - they create the lesser form - not Adamus - but "Adam" - a lesser mockery of a fully Divine creation event..He literally created a "pet species" to soothe his children and keep them occupied so they would not think about hat greater realm..That is pretty much what it comes down to - mankind is a kiind of consolation prize lol - like you give a child a rabbit when they are disappointed...lol...

Only it just didnt work of course - the Angels continued to question - directly banned from higher investigation themselves,they cunningly approach mankind who is under no such ban at all - yet - and so they tell us truth of the high Divine and give us knowledge that will allow US to directly encounter it..Knowledge if ALL good and evil - access to the semi Divine mind that makes us "like gods" - see the twisting bible truth...Yahweh reacts to this with a little panic attack it seems..lol...he knows that WE know HOW to TRANSCEND and rise above to that great realm - the Angels taught us how - so BEFORE we can actually do this, he banishes us, ALTERS Our ENERGETIC FORM making it nearly impossible to gain access to these subtle energetic layers to creation..He says clearly even inthe bible - now that they know this truth (given by rebel Angels) - get them out of here - BEFORE they also learn this OTHER truth (the high realm)..So, we end up here, fully mortal Earth dweller - trapped Soul inside a PHYSICAL prison - and upon death forced again into a cycle of REINCARNATION - kept fully ignroant of such spiritual truth always..

Still - the Angels persisted though - and those who questioned openly were likewise too, lured here to the Earth - under false pretenses - go watch over our creation Yahweh lied - protect them - bu t no sooner did they arrive here among us than Yahweh also altered their forms trapping them here in the same lower cycles forever among us..These "fallen ones" pretty much take control of mankind - as youd expect really - teach us EVERYTHING most especially spiritual knowledge that will allow TRANSCENDANCE !! Its all about TRUTH OF THE DIVINE - and how Yahweh the lesser god prohibited that truth from becoming known..

Most of what we know is twisted bible history - the similarities are pretty clear - but Christ as said, lays no blame whatsoever - just recounts it like a series of regrettable cause and affect....As said elsewhere - when He came here - the god Yahweh was SILENT and had been for a long time already - the Jews faced a choice - they chose the lesser for mortal power and status concerns...SAME priesthood - same god - same Angels among us - all contribute to the mess we are in now...Jewish religion fell apart when Christ came - literally one religion became over a hundred NEW forming "chrisitian sects" in the first few decades after - some left immediately followed Him IN LIFE and thus UNDERSTOOD Him directly - there were hundreds like that folowed Him everywhere faithfully and these give the best clearest testimony of course - banned by the religion always - most didnt question to deeply til after they muirdered Him of course - because then He really did RESURRECT - and this was what really did it for the Jews, fractured the very heart of their faith - because of this actual event many many more who questioned and doubte din life began to now embrace and try to understand -except by then it was already somewhat tool late and already in the first few years, many version of "truth" arose...This is why I always and only rely on the DISCIPLE texts of those who walked and talked DIRECTLY with Hm side by side day to day..Only THEY are fully reliable - the rest is always a second hand twist..

As history tells us icivil war for three centuries followed - then Rome MANUFACTURED the cataholic religion as we know - and ail the way through - SAME PRIIESTHOOD with mix of old Jewish tradition and half truth of Christ poorly understood...This whole demi urge idea is a mix of all these half truths and errors as all these new sects arose trying to piece together their traditional truths and reconcile it with things Christ said and what others said ABOUT Him..it was pushed primarily by the catholic church who literally invented an enemy they named "gnsotic heretic" and thus they justified their MILITARY campaigns of domination under a "spiritual guidance" bogus front..The demiurge lesser god became erroneously asscociated WITH that so called gnsotic religion and thus the catholics had a ready made adversary - any and all who followed ANY spiritual practice other than catholic ordained became that enemy hunted down and murdered - original spiritual truth replaced everywhere with enforced catholic twisted truth..There is no such thing as a gnostic religion - and neither is there an actual demi urge or a satan or devil character - no individual isin opposition to the legitimate Divine - but to the lesser one Yahwew, that title does apply - and the opposiiton is his alone - passed on next to those he casts away down here among us...Evil exist IN the world Christ said - but never mentions any spiritual adversary - only the ignorance of the mortal mind - dominated by a lesser god who holds us trapped in Self ignorance always..

in closing I will say here - you cannot hope to find the full truth in the bible alone - for that is obviously self referential, self enclosed and utterly self biased - they say the bible is the ONLY truth - and wont permit you to look elsewhere - banned as herasy.. and so they trap the mind with the bible truth that THEY have spoon fed....Seek instead - all htose tomes and manuscripts they forbid you to know - find out for the Self what they are hiding...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

how do you know this? are there any apocrypha source text pre rome?

The apocryphal books exclude themselves because they are out of harmony with the ' 66' books of Bible canon.
The ancient manuscripts support the '66' books of Bible canon.
The '66' have corresponding cross-reference verses and passages among the many Bible writers showing the internal harmony among the '66'.

 

[jaybird]

The apocryphal books exclude themselves because they are out of harmony with the ' 66' books of Bible canon.

ur not understanding what im saying. give me one example of this disharmony and i will explain.

The ancient manuscripts support the '66' books of Bible canon.The '66' have corresponding cross-reference verses and passages among the many Bible writers showing the internal harmony among the '66'.

there are no ancient manuscripts of complete books. the earliest complete books are 300 AD (about) thats 300 years after Jesus. your thinking of fragments and a fragment is far from a complete book.
your putting all your trust into rome that apocrythal books are not part of the bible, yet it was rome that burned all the old source text which we dont have to compare anything to. all we have to go by is post roman. is rome trustworthy?
believers read from these books, taught from them, accepted them for 500 plus years. no one had a problem with them until rome had a problem with them.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hi Folks..

Billiardball;

Yes it is VERY simple - when the council first met - the religious leaders of various factions,sects DID NOT HAVE ANY INPUT INT HE SELECTION PROCESS - NONE AT ALL !!

Constantine had NO religious agenda at all - his only concern was clearly matters of civil unrest, infighting among these hundred plus new forming religions and factions..He ORDERED them to come together - FORCED them to cooperate - Constantine,basically,ordered the various and seperate "christian sects", and MADE THEM assemble all their sacred texts that their faith(s) were built upon...He then had his own scribes and scholars assemble a unified doctrine from all the texts so presented - a total of 2231 manuscripts - were wittled down to make a complimentary four book narrative - and thus your modern bible canon was MANUFACTURED TO ORDER ..

Those present - although heads of the various and often vastly different sects - were by no means the equal of the Roman Emporer, neither in power, status or even intelligence...He fully dominated them, it is clear..One early church founder, Sabinius Bishop of Hereclea,was himself in attendance at the famous meeting, and he wrote down the details for the world to see..He said the following of the Nicea meeting..

"Excepting Constantine himself and Eusebius Pamphilius, they were a set of illiterate, simple creatures who understood nothing"
(Secrets of the Christian Fathers, Bishop J. W. Sergerus, 1685, 1897 reprint).

See clearly,the leaders of these sects,had no actual input in the formation of the "catholic religion"..They understood nothing of what was occurring, and were merely in attendance with their documents as ordered by the emporer..THEY did not even decide that which was to be included or discarded as doctrine - they had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in what was to putinto their "bible" - that task was given to that man mentioned above - Eusibius, an aide of Constantine..His instructions were thus :



Understand now..?..Constantine - sick of civil war among his subjects - ORDERS them to "play nicely" - and gives them NO CHOICE in what was to happen...HIS SCHOLARS decided "christian doctrine" and that is undeniable..

I appreciate your comments. However, they did not address the points I've made.

 

[BilliardsBall]

how do you know this? are there any apocrypha source text pre rome?

The Jewish people considered the intertestamental apocryphal books apocrypha before the church did so.

You can look at a Hebrew Bible and a Christian Old Testament--the exact same documents. 100%.

 

[BilliardsBall]

something that never made sense, rome killed Jesus, killed Christians, killed Jews, burned torah scrolls, took over Jerusalem, burned down the Lords temple, and after all that we are lead to believe our Lord makes rome the new center for His church? does Jesus ever mention this? do any of the prophets? from what i have read, every time the bible mentions rome its not so good. are there any other examples in the bible where our Lord uses those that persecuted His people to be an example to the world? why did we never see these things with the Canaanites, Babylonians or philistines?

This is a separate issue. The fact was that Christians came from all over to come together and affirm certain books were Bible and certain were apocrypha. I affirm that so-and-so is my dad, and that many other men are not my dad. I'm affirming/defending what is already factual and true.

The men affirming which books are canon has nothing to do with a Roman (corrupt) system leading "Christianity".

 

[jaybird]

The men affirming which books are canon has nothing to do with a Roman (corrupt) system leading "Christianity".

has everything to do with it being as they were roman. thats the whole point.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Billiardball; Ah my friend - ignoring certain facts wont make them magically alter history to suit your beliefs..I will repeat what I said before - read it again and let it sink in - the formation of your bible was not done with any "spiritual thought" or spiritual agenda or spiritual motivation - none at all - no religious leaders had ANY say in the matter whatsoever :

"Excepting Constantine himself and Eusebius Pamphilius, they were a set of illiterate, simple creatures who understood nothing"
(Secrets of the Christian Fathers, Bishop J. W. Sergerus, 1685, 1897 reprint).

See clearly,the leaders of these sects,had no actual input in the formation of the "catholic religion"..They understood nothing of what was occurring, and were merely in attendance with their documents as ordered by the emporer..THEY did not even decide that which was to be included or discarded as doctrine - they had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in what was to putinto their "bible" - that task was given to that man mentioned above - Eusibius, an aide of Constantine..His instructions were thus :

"Search ye these books, and whatever is good in them, that retain; but whatsoever is evil, that cast away. What is good in one book, unite ye with that which is good in another book. And whatsoever is thus brought together shall be called The Book of Books. And it shall be the doctrine of my people, which I will recommend unto all nations, that there shall be no more war for religions' sake."
(God's Book of Eskra, op. cit., chapter xlviii, paragraph 31)

Understand now..?..Constantine - sick of civil war among his subjects - ORDERS them to "play nicely" - and gives them NO CHOICE in what was to happen...HIS SCHOLARS decided "christian doctrine" and that is undeniable..I iwll add here in answer to your earlier comment - THIS is why the bible has the same literary style that you said was necassary - same style because they are written by the SAME SCHOLARS - like cut n paste from HUNDREDS of such books - a GROUP OF SCOLARS edited them severely, hence they all follow the same style....OBVIOUS....

 

[BilliardsBall]

has everything to do with it being as they were roman. thats the whole point.

The books of the Bible are not Roman Catholic in origin. Protestants have agreed with the Jewish people, that only what Protestants and Catholics call "39" books are scripture, but that doesn't make the Bible Protestant any more than it is Catholic. Roman church men did meet two and three centuries after the NT was written to agree with what you and I would agree with if we've read the apocrypha and the scriptures. They happened (unlikely I know, since it's Rome) to get it right.

Have you read the apocrypha? I've read much of it--it's nonsense.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hi Folks...

Billiardball; Ah my friend - ignoring certain facts wont make them magically alter history to suit your beliefs..I will repeat what I said before - read it again and let it sink in - the formation of your bible was not done with any "spiritual thought" or spiritual agenda or spiritual motivation - none at all - no religious leaders had ANY say in the matter whatsoever :



See clearly,the leaders of these sects,had no actual input in the formation of the "catholic religion"..They understood nothing of what was occurring, and were merely in attendance with their documents as ordered by the emporer..THEY did not even decide that which was to be included or discarded as doctrine - they had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in what was to putinto their "bible" - that task was given to that man mentioned above - Eusibius, an aide of Constantine..His instructions were thus :



Understand now..?..Constantine - sick of civil war among his subjects - ORDERS them to "play nicely" - and gives them NO CHOICE in what was to happen...HIS SCHOLARS decided "christian doctrine" and that is undeniable..I iwll add here in answer to your earlier comment - THIS is why the bible has the same literary style that you said was necassary - same style because they are written by the SAME SCHOLARS - like cut n paste from HUNDREDS of such books - a GROUP OF SCOLARS edited them severely, hence they all follow the same style....OBVIOUS....

If you search online, you will also find lovely statements by council elders that they felt a strong pull of the Holy Spirit to meet, and felt God's hand at work in their unity, and their decisiveness.

I think you're also banking on an unlikely assumption--that Constantine (or his mother) were very knowledgeable in religious matters. They did want more peace in their empire, but the men who met felt the peace of God as they affirmed what is so obviously true to those who read both the apocrypha and the Bible, that all the books found the correct silos.

You may be different--you seem very well read--but most people I know who ask about "Oh man! All those books forced out of the Bible!" have never read even one apocryphal verse. Here's an example:

Whereas many and great things have been delivered unto us by the law and the prophets, and by others that have followed their steps, for the which things Israel ought to be commended for learning and wisdom; and whereof not only the readers must needs become skillful themselves, but also they that desire to learn be able to profit them which are without, both by speaking and writing: my grandfather Jesus, when he had much given himself to the reading of the law, and the prophets, and other books of our fathers, and had gotten therein good judgment, was drawn on also himself to write something pertaining to learning and wisdom; to the intent that those which are desirous to learn, and are addicted to these things, might profit much more in living according to the law.

Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

I bet you and other readers can guess which is scripture, which is apocrypha. Hint: The first apocryphal passage I looked at contained poor doctrine.

 

[jaybird]

The books of the Bible are not Roman Catholic in origin. Protestants have agreed with the Jewish people, that only what Protestants and Catholics call "39" books are scripture, but that doesn't make the Bible Protestant any more than it is Catholic. Roman church men did meet two and three centuries after the NT was written to agree with what you and I would agree with if we've read the apocrypha and the scriptures. They happened (unlikely I know, since it's Rome) to get it right.

Have you read the apocrypha? I've read much of it--it's nonsense.

when i say roman im referring to roman empire and not catholic.
the source for the NT books are not roman i agree. but they do not exist and without them we have nothing to compare the roman text to.
i have read a few, they did not seem like nonsense to me. many early generations of Christians didnt think they were nonsense as well.
i read they did away with most books that were not relevant to salvation. Jesus taught on much more than salvation. many believe salvation is just the beginning.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Billiard Ball; First then - I have a simple question for you - OK, so my mate gets murdered hung on a tree and RESURRECTS His Self for the world to see...THIS event destroyed Jewish religion fractures it into over a HUNDRED new sects and religions and starts off all this infighting in the extreme lasting for the next 350 years or so until Rome intervene - yes..?..

And you say now - all these new religious leaders ALL HAVE THE HOLY GHOST you say and are ALL inspired by the Divine you believe..?....So a very very simple logical question has to be addressed here....HOW COME they are DIFFERENT TRUTHS ..??...

If one true god is speaking DIRECTLY to many many leaders and its all legitimate from the same "divine source", then each of those leaders would have the SAME version of that gods truth - wouldnt they..?...Obviously this was not so,as ACTUALLY we know for sure as said - OVER 100 such new sects formed in the first few decades and every one was in constant power struggle for supremacy hence the need for Rome to finally intervene....DIFFERENT - OPPOSED - yet all coming fromr a "divinely inspired leader" you say...Sure thats the case given all I present here??

The Holy Ghost IS very real I assure you but those first "leaders - nor Constantine himself - THEY did NOT have it - nor did they yet fully understand its significance - only later they realised its importance when despite their best MILITARY efforts, people time and time again stood up to them, declared this TRUTH within and stubbornly refused to yield even on torture and death still refused to deny their truth..it IS a legitimate phenomena - and when the church began to realise HOW significant it truly is they went all out to prevent all knowledge of ANY spiritual practice that would allow mortal man to DIRECTLY encounter the other worldly inhabitants - all spiritual wisdom became "herasy" as they tried to stop us gaining this Holy Ghost on the personal level....CRUCIAL Self understanding...Those first founding fathers had NO SAY at all in the final bible doctrine...

I will just say here that with the Holy Ghost present - you dont need to be "well read" with endless books and opinions from others to determine Divine truth - such truth is delivered directly , mind to mind and it is always whole and complete - you just need to allow the Presence to guide even when it brings things that may seem bizarre or contrary - Christ told us directly this tool was essential as it is the only sure guide to trust..Truth from the world can only bring confusion He siaa - truth from the Divine comes through this inner guide and can always be trusted...

Try to see all this as it really was...Jewish society is WHOLE and religion and belief in THAT god absolutely governs how that society lives day to day....the god is central to everything they do and the Pharisees - priests and scholars - literally rule the society, have the top positions and authority over JEWISH matters - but remember, they are ALL under the dominance also of Rome, an INVADING force.....

Then Christ comes - tells everyone that their god is a trickster deceiving them - PROVES it with miracles no priest of Yahweh can come close to matching...Hes a direct threat to the established authority of the priests and also to the god itself whom He openly says is not even a god but only an Angel.....This caused the first MINOR fractures in the Jewish religion..SOME, but not many at all, followed Christ IN LIFE, believed Him and wished to learn His truth....

Enough so that the priests felt threatened - for here is a man who tells the crowd to AVOID the temple and its lesser god and PROVES HIS claims with these magikal feats that are unsurpassed.....Check out their actual history -- at that time, magik and sorcery - especially "divine intervention" - is VERY VERY COMMON - literally the whole society accepts and understands such things as legitimate truth of every day life - but HERE - this one man Christ - causes such a commotion with the things HE ALONE can do, that the priesthood become directly involved, investigate Him and confront Him as we know leading to His mortal death at their hands....

WRONG GOD - that is the whole issue for them - and He proves His claim - HE can do miracles - THEY cannot - they KNOW He is legitmately Divine....So they kill Him - and this single event was the catalyst for the centuries of wars and unrest that followed, even right up to today...he ROSE FROM THE DEAD - and this event absolutely shattered the Jewish foundational faith......

Can you imagine...?..IN LIFE the man says some pretty bizarre things - proves them with these miracles - some believe Him immediately as said and so Jewish religion splinters....NOW though - He has been PUBLICALLY KILLED and EVERYONE is talking about it of course,MAJOR NEWS as some poelpe genuinely think of Him as MESSIAH - and yet - just a few days later after this rather public death - HE RESURRECTS and IS SEEN MY MANY and news of His resurrection very quickly spreads....THIS caused MAJOR FRACTURES in the Jewish faith...

In life - He attracted a few - a minority - but now in "death" and resurrected - in the first twenty or thirty years alone OVER ONE HUNDRED - NEW forms of "His truth" arose - over 100 NEW SECTS AND RELIGIONS that ALL "bare His name".....But understand - these came AFTER HIS death - these are not the ORIGINAL followers - these are basing their truth on the old traditions they ALWAYS held (Yahweh worship) now mixed in with these new teaching s from Christ - and every one of these new sects are DIRECTLY contesting for power and authority over the people.....

Now the JEWISH faction was always most dominant obviously, firmly established fo rmillenai already - yet it is now Jewish rabbis who now literally "defect" as it were to form these NEW sects....Like they cant let go of their old truth - but can see Christ was legitimate - so they struggle to come to terms - fight each other none stop - until as we know ROME steps in like 300 years later to make them as said "play nicely"...And see the core power base Jewish rabbis have ALREADY begun to absolutely persecute hunt down and kill all those who KNEW CHRIST - like ANYONE who confessed to knowing His truth MURDERED !! Indeed - check out PAUL of the bible fame - he was a man who did exactly that - hunted down and killed the LEGITIMATE follower of Christ - before supposedly having a spiritual experience himself that changes his mind opposite....

Understand then clearly - all those new forming "christian" sects actually had very VERY little DIRECT testimony or first hand witness accounts to work with, as ALREADY the truth of Christ was being destroyed in this on going power struggle for doiminance...Their whole core foundation was still firmly JEWISH for the most part - except for a few that knew Him legitimately and these of course STARTED NO RELIGION AT ALL, because as said and as Christ taught them directly, ALL religion was to be avoided - communion was a PERSONAL effort - a fully GNOSTIC endeavour where a religion was a disitinct handicap and a hinderance..His teaching was blatantly to get people out of and away from the religious mindset entirely - quit the temple - no more babbling like a pagan - no more useless prayers and rituals He said - yes..?...He came and said openly that He would dismantle that whole schism and replace it with Divine truth - to take apart the religion right at its foundation - wrong god entirely - and certainly He did NOT intend to start another religion to replace all that previous error...

This is EXACTLY WHY THEY KILLED HIM - wrong god to begin with ,and the priest leads you only TO that lesser god....When actually - AVOID the religion He said,come to ME and I will show you DIRECTLY how to commune with a LEGITIMATE Divine source such that you all can do the things I the Christ do - that IS what He tells EVERYONE - and this absolutely makes that religion OBSOLETE - they cannot allow His truth to stand - and yet everyone knows He is truth for as said,Hea lone does things that no priest fo Yahweh can even do at all..

Were He here in the flesh right now, the catholic religion would be top of His "hit list" just as the pharisee Jewish religion was back in his day..No religion necassary at all - no INTERMEDIARY necassary at all - Divine communion is a PERSONAL endeavour - the Kingdom we seek is always found WITHIN US and NOT in a temple or the words of man....

Its not so much Rome then that is to blame - Constantine just took advantage of religious confusion and twisted it to suit his political goals...CLEVER MAN I say..He merely told all those new forming essentially still JEWISH sects, struggling with Christ truth - ordered them to come together and basically DICTATED their own truths based on the books that they AT THAT TIME considered sacred..

This is quite undeniable - as we have direct testimony as offered above from CHURCH FOUNDING FATHERS who were PRESENT at the Nicea meeting and tell us directly how it all played out....These new religions, new sects leaders, over 100 different truths as said - had absolutely NO INPUT AT ALL into the canon gospels...NONE WHATSOEVER...They literally handed over their books to SCHOLARS then left as ordered - came back when ordered once the scholars had done their task, to be DICTATED what their new religion was to actually be....They themselves DID NOT formulate ANY scripture, that was all done directly by ROMAN SCHOLARS who were told precisely that the only aim was to have a UNITED religion, so pick what MATCHES he said and discard the rest completely.. That IS the truth of the bible canon origins...

 

[BilliardsBall]

when i say roman im referring to roman empire and not catholic.
the source for the NT books are not roman i agree. but they do not exist and without them we have nothing to compare the roman text to.
i have read a few, they did not seem like nonsense to me. many early generations of Christians didnt think they were nonsense as well.
i read they did away with most books that were not relevant to salvation. Jesus taught on much more than salvation. many believe salvation is just the beginning.

Very good, but they did away with books that:

1. Weren't accepted by Jewish readers
2. Contradicted themselves
3. Contradicted the Bible (like baptism for the dead)
4. Had filthy language, rape language, etc.
5. Had no line of descent (like Tertullian saying his master Irenaeus knew what Irenaeus's master, John, wrote for certain)
6. Never claimed to be scripture/revelation/God's Word
7. Contained no prophecies, either going forward or fulfilled
8. Weren't quoted by early church writers (early church writers quoted so many NT books in the first two centuries that we could piece the NT together from their letters!)

You have VERY good reasons to reject the apocrypha, just as the councils had. Today, only Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, etc. consider the apocrypha sacral. Thousands of different Protestant and non-denominational groups reread the apocrypha and rejected them, again and again.

 

[BilliardsBall]

There were hundreds of churches in hundreds of cities and small towns. Where did you get the 100 sects number from? There was separation due to persecution and hiding, but when church leaders came from across the empire, they all denounced obvious heresy, like Gnosticism (sin isn’t of the spirit, only the flesh, so sin all you like) and the apocrypha.

Arguing this now is silly IMHO because thousands of sects formed after the councils ALL rejected all the apocrypha, freshly each time upon reading and studying. See my post above for more…

I will just say here that with the Holy Ghost present - you dont need to be "well read" with endless books and opinions from others to determine Divine truth - such truth is delivered directly , mind to mind and it is always whole and complete - you just need to allow the Presence to guide even when it brings things that may seem bizarre or contrary - Christ told us directly this tool was essential as it is the only sure guide to trust..Truth from the world can only bring confusion He siaa - truth from the Divine comes through this inner guide and can always be trusted...

The Spirit helped write the NT, and the NT contains statements opposed to what you shared above. The reason why scripture is important is that all beliefs and doctrines must be held up to scripture and cannot be contradictory to itself or the Bible.

I appreciate that you talk of mind-to-mind knowledge from God, however, such knowledge is found overwhelmingly/predominantly in the scriptures.

Understand then clearly - all those new forming "christian" sects actually had very VERY little DIRECT testimony or first hand witness accounts to work with

I’m sorry, but that is untrue. They had the NT, and they had living witnesses scattered around the empire due to persecution. Early on, Jesus had hundreds of disciples who were preaching, and the entire record of the NT is of people tirelessly and ceaselessly preaching what they knew from scripture and from eyewitness accounts.

This is quite undeniable - as we have direct testimony as offered above from CHURCH FOUNDING FATHERS who were PRESENT at the Nicea meeting and tell us directly how it all played out.

As I wrote, what played out hundreds of years after, in the councils, was that people met who were delighted to meet, excited to not be persecuted and to concentrate and to work. They didn’t realize how wrong the Empire and the Roman “church” were about to go, but you cannot blame them for our hindsight…

 

[jaybird]

Arguing this now is silly IMHO because thousands of sects formed after the councils ALL rejected all the apocrypha, freshly each time upon reading and studying. See my post above for more…

the Essenes were a sect of Jews that did not reject them. of all the sects of Jews that Jesus was critical, He says nothing against the essenes. i wonder why?