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The Bible declares that Jesus is God
- Thread starter Rick B
- Start date
You need to address my previous post.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Hang on . . . If the Christian bible declares Jesus is God and elsewhere that Jesus is the Morning Star, and that Lucifer is the Morning Star, then it stands to reason that God must be Lucifer!
Isaiah 14:12
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,a]">[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
Revelations 22:16
16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to
testify to you about these things for
the churches. I am the root and the
descendant of David, the bright morning star."
Perfect!
Isaiah 14:12
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,a]">[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
Revelations 22:16
16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to
testify to you about these things for
the churches. I am the root and the
descendant of David, the bright morning star."
Perfect!
Did you read posts 694 and 700? This is a rabbit-trail which are tactics of diversion designed to avoid an insurmountable argument.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I have no idea what you are talking about, but my post was tongue in cheek. We all know that the 'Lucifer' mentioned in Isaiah 14:12 is nothing more than a metaphor describing King Nebuchadnezzar (not the actual Roman Lucifer) and in Revelations 22:16 the Morning Star is another metaphor for the 'true light'. So, we see that the Morning Star can be used to describe a downfallen king and a risen King.
Carry on . . .
Magus
Active Member
Not only Isaiah 14:12 a metaphor for King Nebuchadnezzar but he also appears as the protagonist in the Book of Revelation, hence Revelation is not a prophetic but anachronistic, the Fall of Babylon
is attributed to King Cyrus, the original Christ-saviour figure that Jesus was based on.
Rev 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen.
This 'Fall of Babylon' motif is repeated throughout the Bible, from the beginning as the Fall of Adam and as the Fall of Esau, all relate to the demise of Babylon and the rise of the Persian empire.
is attributed to King Cyrus, the original Christ-saviour figure that Jesus was based on.
Rev 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen.
This 'Fall of Babylon' motif is repeated throughout the Bible, from the beginning as the Fall of Adam and as the Fall of Esau, all relate to the demise of Babylon and the rise of the Persian empire.
Excuse me? You said, and I quote:
"I've always considered it wise to get God's view on things and to listen to what He has to say."
Would it not be at least a teensy contradiction to say "I listen to He has to say" and at the same time "I don't believe there's something He has to say?"
I don't believe the confusion is mine, in this case.
No, I mean quite literally what I have said: God's revelation came to very few individuals -- Abraham, Moses, some prophets, some Apostles -- all in all, not very many people at all. And they -- and they alone -- are supposed to have transcribed those revelations perfectly, so that everybody else could put their faith in what is supposed to have been revealed.
It is my view that if God can reveal his will to Moses, or Samuel, or Peter or Saul of Tarsus -- then He can as easily reveal it to every person on earth and save us all the grief that has come from imperfect transmission which we humans are truly famous for.
After all, there are some 38,000 Christians sects among the major Christian denominations, and they most assuredly do not all agree with one another. For God to have chosen this method of "getting the truth out" seems pretty dumb. And for a God, it would be monumentally stupid.
Sorry, false comparison. You are putting this "teacher" in the place of God, suggesting that rather than "teach" me, he could somehow mystically "reveal." That's how God is supposed to work, not teachers. Nothing further to say on that.
You are muddying word meanings again. "Looking to" and "looking at" do not mean at all the same thing in English. Nor do "cure" (for snake bite) and "answers" (to questions) have anything like the same meaning.
I repeat again and again and again -- those people who diddle their way around the words used in order to make them mean something that they really do not seem to mean are not adding clarity -- their adding supposition and guesswork, which only leads to confusion.
Magus
Active Member
Well the entire Old Testament doesn't declare 'Jesus' to be a God, they are many characters that are named Jesus, a prominent example, Jeshua the high priest ( Ezra 2:2) , his name is 'Ἰησοῦς' in the Septuagint .
Zechariah 3:9
Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the branch.
Christians commonly use this verse, but 'Joshua' (Ἰησοῦ / Jesus) was the high priest living in the 5th-4th century, whom will bring forth his servant, the branch, this entire context deals with that period of time.
This 'branch or Sprout was Zerubbabel since Seed sprouts' as in the name Zeru ( Seed), and Joshua the high priest is always seen paired with Zerubbabel throughout Ezra-Nehemiah.
Ezra 5:2
Then rose up Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and began to build the house of God which is at Jerusalem
Ezra 4:3
But Zerubbabel, and Jeshua, and the rest of the chief of the fathers of Israel, said unto them, Ye have nothing to do with us to build an house unto our God; but we ourselves together will build unto the LORD God of Israel, as king Cyrus the king of Persia hath commanded us.
How does any of this relate to a 1st century nobody, who was never a King, High Priest, Savior, Didn't free anyone from captivity, didn't build any temples, never fulfilled the roles that Cyrus, Jeshua and Zerubabbel filled.
Zechariah 3:9
Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the branch.
Christians commonly use this verse, but 'Joshua' (Ἰησοῦ / Jesus) was the high priest living in the 5th-4th century, whom will bring forth his servant, the branch, this entire context deals with that period of time.
This 'branch or Sprout was Zerubbabel since Seed sprouts' as in the name Zeru ( Seed), and Joshua the high priest is always seen paired with Zerubbabel throughout Ezra-Nehemiah.
Ezra 5:2
Then rose up Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and began to build the house of God which is at Jerusalem
Ezra 4:3
But Zerubbabel, and Jeshua, and the rest of the chief of the fathers of Israel, said unto them, Ye have nothing to do with us to build an house unto our God; but we ourselves together will build unto the LORD God of Israel, as king Cyrus the king of Persia hath commanded us.
How does any of this relate to a 1st century nobody, who was never a King, High Priest, Savior, Didn't free anyone from captivity, didn't build any temples, never fulfilled the roles that Cyrus, Jeshua and Zerubabbel filled.
It is expected from an atheist to reject God, to reject His word, even reject God's method of communicating His word to His creation.
2 Timothy 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
1 Corinthians 2:
2 When I came to you, brothers and sisters, I did not come with superior eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed the testimony of God. 2 For I decided to be concerned about nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and with much trembling. 4 My conversation and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on the power of God.
6 Now we do speak wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing. 7 Instead we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it. If they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him.” 10 God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So too, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God. 13 And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people. 14 The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The one who is spiritual discerns all things, yet he himself is understood by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to advise him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Still running?
Thanks for the sermon, but it ought to be clear, even to you, that quoting scripture is probably the least likely way to get my attention.
But you did not even attempt to say anything about my point -- probably because you can't. And that point is this: the scripture you quote has been used to defend religious beliefs that have been in conflict with one another since those scriptures were set down. They've led to disparate and warring beliefs, and therefore there is at least one thing I think I can confidently say about them: THEY ARE NOT THE PRODUCT OF AN OMNISCIENT, PERFECT BEING. I accept them, therefore, as the product of fallible humans, nothing more.
Magus
Active Member
From what? You the one unable to answer anything, why would a God contradict his immortality by sacrificing himself to himself, this means no sacrifice took place.
You claim the Bible declares Jesus is 'God' ( EL, Yahweh, Theos, which one), the Old Testament does not, so it's all down to the New Testament, the four contradictory Gospels and the Fake letters of Paul that are addressing Roman colonies.
Since this thread is about Scripture-"The Bible declares that Jesus is God" then why are you expressing your opinion if it is the least likely way of getting your attention? Why are you engaging in Scriptural discussions if you're not interested?
Why are you quoting Scripture to prove your point if you believe it is unreliable and merely man's fallible writings and nothing more?
I know why. You cannot resist the temptation to express your hatred of the God that exists.
You are running from post 694. You address that logically and directlyou and then I will address this post. Deal?
Magus
Active Member
Post 694 addressing anonymous Romans
Titvs & Pavlvs.
God (θεός) our Savior (σωτήρ) - Titus 1:3
'θεός' in the Greek speaking world of the Roman empire, is a translation of the Latin DIVVS , so 'θεός' was the Greek name of 'Divvs Ivlivs'
On the Left , an image of Julius Caesar with the four Greek letters 'θ ε ό ς' , written on Metal, that's solid evidence.
This relates to the letters of Paul, for they are coincidentally addressing colonies founded by Julius Caesar and according to archaeology, the cult of Divvs Ivlivs' ( God ) was most popular at those locations , for example, Ephesus ( Ephesians) is where the temple of Dea Roman & Divvs Ivlivs Caesar was located. ( the Church of Ephesus ), note that the Church design, is also Roman, from the cult of of Divvs Ivlivs.
Caesar Clementia , the pyramidal roof . Caesar's cross of victory, 'Clementia' means forgiveness, a celebrated virtue of Julius Caesar.
Titvs & Pavlvs.
God (θεός) our Savior (σωτήρ) - Titus 1:3
'θεός' in the Greek speaking world of the Roman empire, is a translation of the Latin DIVVS , so 'θεός' was the Greek name of 'Divvs Ivlivs'
On the Left , an image of Julius Caesar with the four Greek letters 'θ ε ό ς' , written on Metal, that's solid evidence.
This relates to the letters of Paul, for they are coincidentally addressing colonies founded by Julius Caesar and according to archaeology, the cult of Divvs Ivlivs' ( God ) was most popular at those locations , for example, Ephesus ( Ephesians) is where the temple of Dea Roman & Divvs Ivlivs Caesar was located. ( the Church of Ephesus ), note that the Church design, is also Roman, from the cult of of Divvs Ivlivs.
Caesar Clementia , the pyramidal roof . Caesar's cross of victory, 'Clementia' means forgiveness, a celebrated virtue of Julius Caesar.
I am ceaselessly amazed by how some believers here also believe that they are privy to the private content of my mind, that they know what I'm thinking and why.
Trust me, with all your magic, superstitious woo-woo, you really don't.
I will tell you what I think. You tell me what you think. I promise not to try to tell you what you think, and I insist that you do me the same courtesy -- especially since it in fact makes you look dumb, and I would regret that for you.
It might not have occurred to you, but I have a deep and abiding interest in human writing -- literature, poetry, fantasy, non-fiction, drama. You have no idea how much I've read, but my library might surprise you.
I am also interested in humans -- who we are, why we do what we do, why we claim love and yet kill, or to believe what we consistently show evidence that we don't believe at all. This is a subject called "philosophy," you might have heard of it. It has some resemblance to religious, except that it requires a little more rigour and typically rejects nonsense statements that cannot be demonstrated to have any truth value. Belief is something that is interesting to study in philosophy, but it is easy to show that it is not necessarily something that can be proved beneficial. (People buy lottery tickets because they believe they can win -- mostly this is an idiotic belief, but it doesn't stop many people at all. It is why so many intelligent people refer to government-run lotteries as "a tax on the stupid.")
Your problem here is that you simply don't understand what my "point" is. I'll try to give you a hint:
I am a humanist. I believe in reason, I believe in the essential worth of every human being, I hope for the best for humans now and in the future, I believe that can only happen when we learn, and I believe that learning is defeated by adherence to ignorant superstition.
I have demonstrated (38,000 warring sects in a single prime religion, Christianity) that scripture is provably incapable of delivering a coherent message -- and that it is therefore unworthy of the claim that it is the inspiration of an infallible deity. Therefore, you have to consider its worth from that perspective.
My assessment was not derived by being privy to the private content of your mind as you complain but by your own public admission of being a "lifelong atheist". And it's not my private opinion regarding your hatred of God because of your being an atheist. It is what God, Himself, has said.
The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'... Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1
I also referred you to two other Scriptures in previous posts.
John 3:19-20
19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Romans 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
These verses describe your Humanism. I am amazed that, with all of your self-promoting intelectual acumen, you had no idea what was being presented.
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Post 694 addressing anonymous Romans
Titvs & Pavlvs.
God (θεός) our Savior (σωτήρ) - Titus 1:3
'θεός' in the Greek speaking world of the Roman empire, is a translation of the Latin DIVVS , so 'θεός' was the Greek name of 'Divvs Ivlivs'
On the Left , an image of Julius Caesar with the four Greek letters 'θ ε ό ς' , written on Metal, that's solid evidence.
This relates to the letters of Paul, for they are coincidentally addressing colonies founded by Julius Caesar and according to archaeology, the cult of Divvs Ivlivs' ( God ) was most popular at those locations , for example, Ephesus ( Ephesians) is where the temple of Dea Roman & Divvs Ivlivs Caesar was located. ( the Church of Ephesus ), note that the Church design, is also Roman, from the cult of of Divvs Ivlivs.
Caesar Clementia , the pyramidal roof . Caesar's cross of victory, 'Clementia' means forgiveness, a celebrated virtue of Julius Caesar.
This feeble attempt of a response to (Titus 2:13 "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ") and Granville-Sharp's Rule is simply nonsensical. Try addressing the text and it's relevance to the Granville-Sharp's Rule.
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