The Bible declares that Jesus is God

[metis]

Everyone that knows Jesus knows 100% he teaches--the one who sent him( Father( John 17:3--John 5:30)= THE ONLY TRUE GOD- they outright refuse to believe Jesus--Paul believed him -1Cor 8:6)
I hope you will as well.

That may well be your belief, but beliefs are not necessarily facts. I don't have any reason to believe that anyone could speak for God, assuming there is one of course-- which I don't.

 

[Rick B]

Just because someone claims to be a scholar does not make it truth.
The pharisees, scribes and Saduccees in Jesus day were Gods chosen scholars, yet could not see their own Messiah. So not so scholarly were they. Most today claiming to be scholars aren't really.

How convenient. When your position has been refuted by historic, scholarly evidence you dismiss it "out of hand".

But utilize scholars (although never named or quoted) when you think it presents some kind of, albeit, "ghostly" support.

Your argument:
"Hebrew scholars ay I am = error at Exodus---- They did not do the Septuagint. They are correct.
The Pharisees didn't say one truth about Jesus"

Hypocrisy.

 

[kjw47]

Pharisees - Wikipedia

I decided to give you a link since it answers that, plus maybe some other questions you have. Just one important point dealing with that, and that is that the Pharisees were more of a movement more based on the accentuation of scriptures versus animal/grain sacrifices at the Temple.

The last time I read some of the archaeology on this, they had singled out four different groups but feel there could be more. Since the movement was based more on the scriptures and their interpretations, difference of opinions were more likely to appear, thus causing division.

Satan had control of them, even though the Israelites were Gods chosen, until he cut them off-Matt 23:37-39

 

[kjw47]

How convenient. When your position has been refuted by historic, scholarly evidence you dismiss it "out of hand".

But utilize scholars (although never named or quoted) when you think it presents some kind of, albeit, "ghostly" support.

Your argument:
"Hebrew scholars ay I am = error at Exodus---- They did not do the Septuagint. They are correct.
The Pharisees didn't say one truth about Jesus"

Hypocrisy.

You just refuse the facts. The facts do not back your scholars.

 

[Rick B]

You just refuse the facts. The facts do not back your scholars.

Do your eyes even see what your hand is typing as responses?

 

[Rick B]

You just refuse the facts. The facts do not back your scholars.

And you have no-name scholars to support your self-proclaimed facts.
I will be responding to your post 878.

 

[Oeste]

You just refuse the facts. The facts do not back your scholars.

Does your eyes even see what your hand is typing as responses?

Honestly Rick, I don't think it does. Let's see if this helps:

Reasoning with KJW47:

Does this sum up what you just told us adequately, KJW47, or did I leave something out?

 

[metis]

Satan had control of them, even though the Israelites were Gods chosen, until he cut them off-Matt 23:37-39

So, according to you, Paul was controlled by Satan, right? Apparently Jesus must have been as well, right, since he was coming from a liberal Pharisee paradigm?

Also, is you believe Satan is in control of any group, welcome to the world of polytheism, as there would be God with His sovereign domain and Satan with his sovereign domain = polytheism.

 

[Rick B]

Your post is error. No JW Worships Jesus--you are making it up. We bow in obeisance to our king Jesus and worship only YHVH(Jehovah)-- its the same greek word--Proskenaue--5 meanings from greek to English--1) worship to God==2) obeisance to a king--3) honor to a judge-- plus 2 others. trinity error giving worship to Jesus--obeisance is the correct usage for him, everytime.

According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, “Jesus is not God,” and thus should not be worshiped by Christians. The Watchtower, a magazine published twice a month by Jehovah’s Witnesses, has repeatedly made such claims through the years. In their September 15, 2005 issue, for example, they stated quite simply that the Scriptures “show that Jesus is not God Almighty.” The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ official Web site (jw.org), which republishes many items from The Watchtower, briefly answers the question “Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Jesus?,” concluding, “we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God” (2015). After all, allegedly “in his prehuman existence, Jesus was a created spirit being…. Jesus had a beginning and could never be coequal with God in power or eternity” (“What Does the Bible…?,” 2000, emp. added). The October 15, 2004 issue of The Watchtower concluded a section about Jesus not being the true God with these words: “Jehovah, and no one else, is ‘the true God and life everlasting.’ He alone is worthy to receive exclusive worship from those whom he created.—Revelation 4:11” (p. 31). Since God alone is worthy of worship, and since Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus is only an angel and not God (see “The Truth About Angels,” 1995), He allegedly should not be worshiped.

There is no argument over the fact that God alone is worthy of worship.The Bible reveals time and again that God alone is to be worshiped.
The Bible also reveals that man must refrain from worshiping angels. When the apostle John fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had revealed to him the message of Revelation, the angel responded, saying, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God” (Revelation 22:9, emp. added; cf. 19:10). Angels, idols, and humans are all unworthy of the reverent worship that is due only to God. As Jesus reminded Satan: “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve’” (Matthew 4:10).

The dilemma in which Jehovah’s Witnesses find themselves is that they believe Jesus was a good man and prophet, yet unlike good men and good angels who have always rejected worship from humanity, Jesus accepted worship. If worship is to be reserved only for God, and Jesus, the One “who knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22), accepted worship, then the logical conclusion is that Jesus believed that He was deity. Numerous times the Bible mentions that Jesus accepted worship from mankind. Matthew 14:33 indicates that those who saw Jesus walk on water “worshiped Him.” John 9:38 reveals that the blind man whom Jesus had healed, later confessed his belief in Jesus as the Son of God and “worshiped him.” After Mary Magdalene and the other women visited the empty tomb of Jesus, and the risen Christ appeared to them, “they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him” (Matthew 28:9). When Thomas first witnessed the resurrected Christ, he exclaimed, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Later, when Jesus appeared to the apostles in Galilee, “they worshiped Him” on a mountain (Matthew 28:17). A few days after that, his disciples “worshiped Him” in Bethany (Luke 24:52). Time and time again Jesus accepted the kind of praise from men that is due only to God. He never sought to correct His followers and redirect the worship away from Himself as did the angel in Revelation or the apostle Paul in Acts 14. Nor did God strike Jesus with deadly worms for not redirecting the praise He received from men as He did Herod, who, when being hailed as a god, “did not give praise to God” (Acts 12:23).

Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses have attempted to circumvent the obvious references to Jesus accepting worship by changing the word “worship” in their New World Translation to “obeisance” every time the Greek word proskuneo (the most prominent word for worship in the New Testament) is used in reference to Jesus. Over 30 times in the New World Translation (first published by the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in 1950) proskuneo is correctly translated “worship” when God the Father is the recipient of glory and praise. This Greek word occurs 14 times in the New Testament in reference to Jesus, yet not once do more recent editions of the New World Translation render it “worship;” instead, every time it is translated “obeisance.” Allegedly, Mary Magdalene, the apostles, the blind man whom Jesus healed, etc., never worshiped Jesus; rather, they only paid “obeisance” to Him.

The Greek word proskuneo, which appears in the New Testament 60 times, literally means “to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence” (Thayer, 1962, p. 548; see also Mounce, 1993, p. 398). According to Greek scholars Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker, this word was used in ancient times “to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or something holy” (1979, p. 723). Admittedly, the word “obeisance” could be used on occasions to translate proskuneo. The problem is that Jehovah’s Witnesses make an arbitrary distinction between obeisance and worship when it comes to the token of reverence that Jesus in particular was given. They translate proskuneo as “obeisance” every time Jesus is the object, yet never when God the Father is the recipient of honor and praise.

To the church at Philippi the apostle Paul wrote: “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him [Jesus] and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9-11, emp. added). The reference to the bowing of the knee is an obvious allusion to worship (cf. Isaiah 45:23; Romans 1:4). Such worship, Paul wrote, would not only come from those on Earth, but also from “those in heaven” (Philippians 2:10). This statement harmonizes well with Hebrews 1:6. In a section in which the writer of Hebrews exalted Jesus above the heavenly hosts, he affirmed that even the angels worship Christ. He wrote: “Let all the angels of God worship (proskuneo) Him.” The KJV, ASV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, RSV and a host of other translations render proskuneo in this verse as “worship.” How does the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation render this passage? Unfortunately, as with all other times in the NWT when Jesus is mentioned as being the object of proskuneo, the word is translated “do obeisance,” not “worship.” Hebrews 1:6 reads: “Let all God’s angels do obeisance to him” (NWT).

Interestingly, however, the NWT has not always rendered proskuneo in Hebrews 1:6 as “do obeisance.” When Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Watchtower Bible and Tract Society first printed the NWT in 1950, the verse actually rendered proskuneo as “worship” instead of “do obeisance.” Even the revised 1961 edition of the NWT translated proskuneo as “worship.” But, by 1971, Jehovah’s Witnesses had changed Hebrews 1:6 to read: “Let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

 

[Rick B]

@kjw47
The fact is, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has been very inconsistent in their teachings on whether or not Jesus should be worshiped. In the past few decades Jehovah’s Witnesses’ flagship magazine (November 1964, p. 671) has claimed that “it is unscriptural for worshipers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ” (as quoted in Rhodes, 2001, p. 26; see also The Watchtower 2004, pp. 30-31). But, “from the beginning it was not so.” Notice what Jehovah’s Witnesses used to teach in The Watchtower (called Zion’s Watch Tower in the early days) regarding whether or not Jesus should be worshiped:

“The wise men came at His birth to worship Him. (Matt. 2) The leper worshiped Him. They in the ship worshiped Him, as did also the ruler and woman of Canaan. Yet none were ever rebuked for it…. [T]o worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong” (Allen, 1880, emp. added).
“[A]lthough we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper to do so; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him” (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1892, emp. added).
“Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so” (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1898).
“[W]hosoever should worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah’s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus…” (The Watchtower, 1945, p. 313).

For more than half a century, Jehovah’s Witnesses taught that it was acceptable to worship Jesus. Now, however, they claim it is unscriptural. Such inconsistency regarding the nature of Christ, which is no small matter, reveals to the honest truth seeker that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an advocate of serious biblical error.

Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses not only reject the worship of Jesus because of their belief that He is not deity, they also must deny Him such religious devotion because they teach He actually is an angel. The Watchtower has taught such a notion for several years. The November 1, 1995 issue indicated, “The foremost angel, both in power and authority, is the archangel, Jesus Christ, also called Michael” (“The Truth About Angels”). More recently, an article appeared on the Jehovah’s Witnesses official Web site affirming “the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth…. It is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role” (“Who Is Michael…?,” 2015). Since, according to Revelation 19:10 and 22:8-9, good angels do not accept worship, but rather preach the worship of God, and no other, Jehovah’s Witnesses must reject paying religious praise and devotion to Jesus. But, notice (again) how inconsistent Jehovah’s Witnesses have been. In only the fifth issue of Zion’s Watch Tower magazine (originally edited by Charles Taze Russell, the founder of The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society), regular contributing writer J.H. Paton stated about Jesus: “Hence it is said, ‘let all the angels of God worship him’: (that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God)…” (1879, p. 4, emp. added). Thus, at one time Jehovah’s Witnesses’ official publication taught that Jesus is not Michael the archangel, and that He should be worshiped. In the 21st century, however, Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel, and that He should not be worshiped. Clear contradictory statements like these found throughout the years in The Watchtower should compel current and potential members of this religious group to question their teachings in light of the Truth found in God’s Word.

Jesus once stated during His earthly ministry, “[A]ll should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23). Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to honor Jesus in the same way they honor God the Father. While on Earth, Jesus was honored on several occasions. His followers worshiped Him. They even worshiped Him after His ascension into heaven (Luke 24:52). Unlike good men and angels in Bible times who rejected worship, Jesus unhesitatingly received glory, honor, and praise from His creation. Truly, such worship is one of the powerful proofs of the deity of Christ.

In Hebrews 1:6, God commands that all the angels worship Jesus and not just give Him obeisance. The ASV, KJV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, and RSV all translate the verse to say "worship." Is the NWT correct and all the others wrong? Not at all. The New World Translation is simply a slanted Bible that is used to support Jehovah's Witness' theology.

Oddly enough, denying worship of Jesus is not what the Watchtower Organization has always taught. On page 216 of the July 15, 1898 edition of the Watchtower magazine it says:

"Question: The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty?
Answer: Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so...It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father, and his agent in the creation of all things, including man."

In the book, New Heavens and a New Earth, on pages 27-28, published in 1953, it says:

"For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father'? And again: 'I shall be a Father to him, and he will be a Son to me'? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels worship him.'"

Also, it is worth noting that the Watchtower organization changes the New World Translation as time goes by. In the 1970 edition, Heb. 1:6 is translated as the word "worship." In the 1980 version it is translated as 'obeisance.' Why the change? Simple, the Watchtower Organization is methodically altering the Bible to make it agree with their theology.

The Jehovah's Witness will probably answer this issue the same way he would with the false prophecies made by the Watchtower Magazine. He would say that "the light is getting brighter." This means that the early Watchtowers did not have the same information and light that the present Watchtower writers do. They made errors in the past, but now they know more and corrections need to be made.

But if this were so, then how can the Jehovah's Witnesses trust what is being said now? If the doctrines have changed before, what's to prevent them from changing again? How can a Jehovah's Witness be sure that what he is believing now won't be changed later? He can't.

He can't be sure of anything written when the JW's do not have a closed canon. If Jesus was clearly believed and taught that He was God earlier then denied that He was God and was Michael, a created angel, what's next? Anyone's guess.

@kjw47 You have no fixed foundation of knowledge to assert anything for certain.

God doesn't change, and neither does His word. But, if you are a man-made religion that is still writing its doctrines, then you need a Bible that keeps up with those changes. The New World Translation is made to order. Compiled and edited from Eric Lyons Apologetics Press and Matt Slick CARM

 

[kjw47]

Do your eyes even see what your hand is typing as responses?

Yes, facts.

 

[kjw47]

Honestly Rick, I don't think it does. Let's see if this helps:

Reasoning with KJW47:
View attachment 18447​

Does this sum up what you just told us adequately, KJW47, or did I leave something out?

Basically the same thoughts the Pharisees had against Jesus and his apostles---They assured the Israelites Jesus power came from satan--were they scholars? they claimed to be. They as well were teaching it was impossible for Jesus and his apostles to be teachers--they did not attend the schools of men to become teachers--again they were in error.
Holy spirit is all Jesus real teachers need. Anyone can claim to be scholars-- there are many that live in darkness as those Israelite teachers in Jesus day were. And they were Gods chosen, but they continued in error, outright refused to make correction. So God cut them off-Matt 23:37 Gods chosen scholars lost to satan--yet all you think you have him beat.

 

[kjw47]

According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, “Jesus is not God,” and thus should not be worshiped by Christians. The Watchtower, a magazine published twice a month by Jehovah’s Witnesses, has repeatedly made such claims through the years. In their September 15, 2005 issue, for example, they stated quite simply that the Scriptures “show that Jesus is not God Almighty.” The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ official Web site (jw.org), which republishes many items from The Watchtower, briefly answers the question “Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Jesus?,” concluding, “we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God” (2015). After all, allegedly “in his prehuman existence, Jesus was a created spirit being…. Jesus had a beginning and could never be coequal with God in power or eternity” (“What Does the Bible…?,” 2000, emp. added). The October 15, 2004 issue of The Watchtower concluded a section about Jesus not being the true God with these words: “Jehovah, and no one else, is ‘the true God and life everlasting.’ He alone is worthy to receive exclusive worship from those whom he created.—Revelation 4:11” (p. 31). Since God alone is worthy of worship, and since Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jesus is only an angel and not God (see “The Truth About Angels,” 1995), He allegedly should not be worshiped.

There is no argument over the fact that God alone is worthy of worship.The Bible reveals time and again that God alone is to be worshiped.
The Bible also reveals that man must refrain from worshiping angels. When the apostle John fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had revealed to him the message of Revelation, the angel responded, saying, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God” (Revelation 22:9, emp. added; cf. 19:10). Angels, idols, and humans are all unworthy of the reverent worship that is due only to God. As Jesus reminded Satan: “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve’” (Matthew 4:10).

The dilemma in which Jehovah’s Witnesses find themselves is that they believe Jesus was a good man and prophet, yet unlike good men and good angels who have always rejected worship from humanity, Jesus accepted worship. If worship is to be reserved only for God, and Jesus, the One “who knew no sin” (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22), accepted worship, then the logical conclusion is that Jesus believed that He was deity. Numerous times the Bible mentions that Jesus accepted worship from mankind. Matthew 14:33 indicates that those who saw Jesus walk on water “worshiped Him.” John 9:38 reveals that the blind man whom Jesus had healed, later confessed his belief in Jesus as the Son of God and “worshiped him.” After Mary Magdalene and the other women visited the empty tomb of Jesus, and the risen Christ appeared to them, “they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him” (Matthew 28:9). When Thomas first witnessed the resurrected Christ, he exclaimed, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Later, when Jesus appeared to the apostles in Galilee, “they worshiped Him” on a mountain (Matthew 28:17). A few days after that, his disciples “worshiped Him” in Bethany (Luke 24:52). Time and time again Jesus accepted the kind of praise from men that is due only to God. He never sought to correct His followers and redirect the worship away from Himself as did the angel in Revelation or the apostle Paul in Acts 14. Nor did God strike Jesus with deadly worms for not redirecting the praise He received from men as He did Herod, who, when being hailed as a god, “did not give praise to God” (Acts 12:23).

Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses have attempted to circumvent the obvious references to Jesus accepting worship by changing the word “worship” in their New World Translation to “obeisance” every time the Greek word proskuneo (the most prominent word for worship in the New Testament) is used in reference to Jesus. Over 30 times in the New World Translation (first published by the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in 1950) proskuneo is correctly translated “worship” when God the Father is the recipient of glory and praise. This Greek word occurs 14 times in the New Testament in reference to Jesus, yet not once do more recent editions of the New World Translation render it “worship;” instead, every time it is translated “obeisance.” Allegedly, Mary Magdalene, the apostles, the blind man whom Jesus healed, etc., never worshiped Jesus; rather, they only paid “obeisance” to Him.

The Greek word proskuneo, which appears in the New Testament 60 times, literally means “to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence” (Thayer, 1962, p. 548; see also Mounce, 1993, p. 398). According to Greek scholars Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker, this word was used in ancient times “to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground, etc.; the Persians did this in the presence of their deified king, and the Greeks before a divinity or something holy” (1979, p. 723). Admittedly, the word “obeisance” could be used on occasions to translate proskuneo. The problem is that Jehovah’s Witnesses make an arbitrary distinction between obeisance and worship when it comes to the token of reverence that Jesus in particular was given. They translate proskuneo as “obeisance” every time Jesus is the object, yet never when God the Father is the recipient of honor and praise.

To the church at Philippi the apostle Paul wrote: “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him [Jesus] and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:9-11, emp. added). The reference to the bowing of the knee is an obvious allusion to worship (cf. Isaiah 45:23; Romans 1:4). Such worship, Paul wrote, would not only come from those on Earth, but also from “those in heaven” (Philippians 2:10). This statement harmonizes well with Hebrews 1:6. In a section in which the writer of Hebrews exalted Jesus above the heavenly hosts, he affirmed that even the angels worship Christ. He wrote: “Let all the angels of God worship (proskuneo) Him.” The KJV, ASV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, RSV and a host of other translations render proskuneo in this verse as “worship.” How does the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation render this passage? Unfortunately, as with all other times in the NWT when Jesus is mentioned as being the object of proskuneo, the word is translated “do obeisance,” not “worship.” Hebrews 1:6 reads: “Let all God’s angels do obeisance to him” (NWT).

Interestingly, however, the NWT has not always rendered proskuneo in Hebrews 1:6 as “do obeisance.” When Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Watchtower Bible and Tract Society first printed the NWT in 1950, the verse actually rendered proskuneo as “worship” instead of “do obeisance.” Even the revised 1961 edition of the NWT translated proskuneo as “worship.” But, by 1971, Jehovah’s Witnesses had changed Hebrews 1:6 to read: “Let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

Not one can prove Jesus accepted worship--alls your scholars have is a mistranslated greek word to go on. Facts prove the opposite of your teachers.

 

[kjw47]

So, according to you, Paul was controlled by Satan, right? Apparently Jesus must have been as well, right, since he was coming from a liberal Pharisee paradigm?

Also, is you believe Satan is in control of any group, welcome to the world of polytheism, as there would be God with His sovereign domain and Satan with his sovereign domain = polytheism.

Nice twisting-- Satan isn't God--he is a fallen angel who desires worship. Jesus taught--satan is ruler of this world--Gods chosen( Israelites) were apostocised when Jesus came to earth--yes satan had control of them--they couldn't even recognize their own Messiah--that means--100% were under satans control at that point--they were being mislead just like 99% today.
Saul who became Paul--hated Jesus guts and all his followers. He was the #1 zealous human standing in opposition to Jesus and his followers. He was leading the groups who were dragging followers out of their houses and beaten and who knows what else.

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47
The fact is, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has been very inconsistent in their teachings on whether or not Jesus should be worshiped. In the past few decades Jehovah’s Witnesses’ flagship magazine (November 1964, p. 671) has claimed that “it is unscriptural for worshipers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ” (as quoted in Rhodes, 2001, p. 26; see also The Watchtower 2004, pp. 30-31). But, “from the beginning it was not so.” Notice what Jehovah’s Witnesses used to teach in The Watchtower (called Zion’s Watch Tower in the early days) regarding whether or not Jesus should be worshiped:

“The wise men came at His birth to worship Him. (Matt. 2) The leper worshiped Him. They in the ship worshiped Him, as did also the ruler and woman of Canaan. Yet none were ever rebuked for it…. [T]o worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong” (Allen, 1880, emp. added).
“[A]lthough we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper to do so; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him” (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1892, emp. added).
“Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so” (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1898).
“[W]hosoever should worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah’s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus…” (The Watchtower, 1945, p. 313).

For more than half a century, Jehovah’s Witnesses taught that it was acceptable to worship Jesus. Now, however, they claim it is unscriptural. Such inconsistency regarding the nature of Christ, which is no small matter, reveals to the honest truth seeker that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an advocate of serious biblical error.

Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses not only reject the worship of Jesus because of their belief that He is not deity, they also must deny Him such religious devotion because they teach He actually is an angel. The Watchtower has taught such a notion for several years. The November 1, 1995 issue indicated, “The foremost angel, both in power and authority, is the archangel, Jesus Christ, also called Michael” (“The Truth About Angels”). More recently, an article appeared on the Jehovah’s Witnesses official Web site affirming “the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth…. It is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role” (“Who Is Michael…?,” 2015). Since, according to Revelation 19:10 and 22:8-9, good angels do not accept worship, but rather preach the worship of God, and no other, Jehovah’s Witnesses must reject paying religious praise and devotion to Jesus. But, notice (again) how inconsistent Jehovah’s Witnesses have been. In only the fifth issue of Zion’s Watch Tower magazine (originally edited by Charles Taze Russell, the founder of The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society), regular contributing writer J.H. Paton stated about Jesus: “Hence it is said, ‘let all the angels of God worship him’: (that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God)…” (1879, p. 4, emp. added). Thus, at one time Jehovah’s Witnesses’ official publication taught that Jesus is not Michael the archangel, and that He should be worshiped. In the 21st century, however, Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is Michael the archangel, and that He should not be worshiped. Clear contradictory statements like these found throughout the years in The Watchtower should compel current and potential members of this religious group to question their teachings in light of the Truth found in God’s Word.

Jesus once stated during His earthly ministry, “[A]ll should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23). Sadly, Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to honor Jesus in the same way they honor God the Father. While on Earth, Jesus was honored on several occasions. His followers worshiped Him. They even worshiped Him after His ascension into heaven (Luke 24:52). Unlike good men and angels in Bible times who rejected worship, Jesus unhesitatingly received glory, honor, and praise from His creation. Truly, such worship is one of the powerful proofs of the deity of Christ.

In Hebrews 1:6, God commands that all the angels worship Jesus and not just give Him obeisance. The ASV, KJV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, and RSV all translate the verse to say "worship." Is the NWT correct and all the others wrong? Not at all. The New World Translation is simply a slanted Bible that is used to support Jehovah's Witness' theology.

Oddly enough, denying worship of Jesus is not what the Watchtower Organization has always taught. On page 216 of the July 15, 1898 edition of the Watchtower magazine it says:

"Question: The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty?
Answer: Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so...It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father, and his agent in the creation of all things, including man."

In the book, New Heavens and a New Earth, on pages 27-28, published in 1953, it says:

"For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father'? And again: 'I shall be a Father to him, and he will be a Son to me'? But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels worship him.'"

Also, it is worth noting that the Watchtower organization changes the New World Translation as time goes by. In the 1970 edition, Heb. 1:6 is translated as the word "worship." In the 1980 version it is translated as 'obeisance.' Why the change? Simple, the Watchtower Organization is methodically altering the Bible to make it agree with their theology.

The Jehovah's Witness will probably answer this issue the same way he would with the false prophecies made by the Watchtower Magazine. He would say that "the light is getting brighter." This means that the early Watchtowers did not have the same information and light that the present Watchtower writers do. They made errors in the past, but now they know more and corrections need to be made.

But if this were so, then how can the Jehovah's Witnesses trust what is being said now? If the doctrines have changed before, what's to prevent them from changing again? How can a Jehovah's Witness be sure that what he is believing now won't be changed later? He can't.

He can't be sure of anything written when the JW's do not have a closed canon. If Jesus was clearly believed and taught that He was God earlier then denied that He was God and was Michael, a created angel, what's next? Anyone's guess.

@kjw47 You have no fixed foundation of knowledge to assert anything for certain.

God doesn't change, and neither does His word. But, if you are a man-made religion that is still writing its doctrines, then you need a Bible that keeps up with those changes. The New World Translation is made to order. Compiled and edited from Eric Lyons Apologetics Press and Matt Slick CARM

The first 80 years--only error filled trinity translation existed. It took many years to undo the false teachings of the past 1750 years.
this is Fact---there is only--Catholicism translating. Mormon translating And JW translating in existence.
All can see the darkness of Catholicism--they never correct errors. The Mormons added a whole book and claim Jesus showed up--yet no translation on earth shows that happened--and JW translating. to fix the errors of Catholicism translating.

 

[Rick B]

Not one can prove Jesus accepted worship--alls your scholars have is a mistranslated greek word to go on. Facts prove the opposite of your teachers.

The first 80 years--only error filled trinity translation existed. It took many years to undo the false teachings of the past 1750 years.
this is Fact---there is only--Catholicism translating. Mormon translating And JW translating in existence.
All can see the darkness of Catholicism--they never correct errors. The Mormons added a whole book and claim Jesus showed up--yet no translation on earth shows that happened--and JW translating. to fix the errors of Catholicism translating.

Here's a fact. You are totally incapable of engaging in logical debate. You fail to directly respond to propositions refuting your allegations. You fail to accurately and honestly portray Trinitarian doctrines. You also fail to defend your religion (just tossing out untrue, irrelevant, or strawmen statements is not rational debate). Perhaps Twitter would be better suited to your remarks.

 

[Rick B]

@kjw47
This should be an easy one for you.
Where in Scripture does it say that Jesus is, was, or will be Michael the Archangel?

 

[Rick B]

Romans 9:5
whose are the patriarchs and of whom is the Christ according to the flesh being over all God blessed to the ages Amen

 

[djhwoodwerks]

There are ones who guess and ones shown the meaning. No guesses are correct.

Very true, that's why your beloved false teachers have to keep making "correction".

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The Mormons added a whole book and claim Jesus showed up--yet no translation on earth shows that happened-

So, it's ok for your sect to say that Jesus has "showed up", (as in 1918 or was it 1919, or was it 1914? I don't know if your teachers have decided when it was yet) but if another says it, they are wrong?