The Bible does not mean what it says

[74x12]

The "four corners" thing would contradict this verse, and only serves to support my original point--that you have to allow for some poetic license when interpreting the Bible. Like you said, we still use the "four corners" figure of speech today, but the poetic license is understood.

Well there was no concept of a planet called earth. The idea of the earth having corners was meant the land mass surrounded by Oceanus or Yam as it was known in Hebrew or Canaanite. That's all the earth they knew. So when you look at the continents on a map you could view them as having corners. Even if they aren't perfect 90 degree corners; yet still corners of some kind.

If it was a snake, it would have bit you--you cited the verse yourself.

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the Earth..." --Isaiah 40:22a

A circle, as we all know, is a flat, two-dimensional object.

The Bible is often Poetic.

If you were standing in the middle of a flat plain and looked as far as you could see in every direction you would see that from horizon to horizon everything was a circle.

God sits above the circle of the earth could simply be referring to the circle of the horizon.

 

[Axe Elf]

The Bible is often Poetic.

Yeah, that was my original point, that since the Bible says things like the Earth is flat and that you can have anything you want if you just pray about it, you have to allow for a certain amount of poetic license when you interpret the Bible.

Now you've challenged my assertion that the Bible says things like the Earth is flat, and when shown that it does, you say, "The Bible is often Poetic." No kidding.

God sits above the circle of the earth could simply be referring to the circle of the horizon.

"Could be"? I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it refers to--a flat, two dimensional impression of the Earth.

 

[Milton Platt]

The scriptures do mean what they say. A person who truly delights in the Lord first and foremost trusts God and desires things or asks for things with a heart and attitude which always wants God's will and wisdom in regard to their desires or requests.

So does that mean faith the size of a mustard seed can cause a mountain to rise up and be cast into the sea?
When has that happened, or do all Christians have faith less than the size of a mustard seed?

 

[InChrist]

So does that mean faith the size of a mustard seed can cause a mountain to rise up and be cast into the sea?
When has that happened, or do all Christians have faith less than the size of a mustard seed?

I see it along these lines...

"We know that this statement about moving mountains and uprooting trees by faith is not to be taken literally. The key to understanding the passages is the nature of faith, which is a gift from God. The power of faith reflects the omnipotent nature of the God who bestows faith on His own. The mustard seed is one of the tiniest seeds found in the Middle East, so the conclusion is that the amount of faith needed to do great things is very small indeed. Just as in the parable of the mustard seed (Matthew 13:31–32), Jesus uses rhetorical hyperbole to make the point that little is much when it comes from God. The mustard seed in the parable grows to be a huge tree, representing the tiny beginnings of Christianity when just a few disciples began to preach and teach the gospel. Eventually, the kingdom grew to huge proportions, encompassing the entire world and spreading over centuries."
What does it mean to have mustard seed faith?

 

[Milton Platt]

I see it along these lines...

"We know that this statement about moving mountains and uprooting trees by faith is not to be taken literally. The key to understanding the passages is the nature of faith, which is a gift from God. The power of faith reflects the omnipotent nature of the God who bestows faith on His own. The mustard seed is one of the tiniest seeds found in the Middle East, so the conclusion is that the amount of faith needed to do great things is very small indeed. Just as in the parable of the mustard seed (Matthew 13:31–32), Jesus uses rhetorical hyperbole to make the point that little is much when it comes from God. The mustard seed in the parable grows to be a huge tree, representing the tiny beginnings of Christianity when just a few disciples began to preach and teach the gospel. Eventually, the kingdom grew to huge proportions, encompassing the entire world and spreading over centuries."
What does it mean to have mustard seed faith?

So not everything in the Bible is literal. I thought that what you indicated earlier. At least we’re past that.

Faith is a gift from your god? Every religion has faith involved. Why would the Christian god give followers of other religions faith in a different god’s religion? That’s a rather poor gift if your god is the real god.

Plus others who profess faith in your god take the story of Genesis literally. Did your god give them crappy faith?

To me, faith is not a reliable path to truth. This is because you can believe anything on faith. `believing something does not make it true.

 

[InChrist]

So not everything in the Bible is literal. I thought that what you indicated earlier. At least we’re past that.

Here is the golden rule of Bible interpretation is, at least I thing it is a good rule of thumb...

When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.” –Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965) Founder of the Biblical Research Society

Which is sometimes shortened to...
When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense.

Faith is a gift from your god? Every religion has faith involved. Why would the Christian god give followers of other religions faith in a different god’s religion? That’s a rather poor gift if your god is the real god.

Plus others who profess faith in your god take the story of Genesis literally. Did your god give them crappy faith?

To me, faith is not a reliable path to truth. This is because you can believe anything on faith. `believing something does not make it true.

Well, the scriptures don't say that faith is God's gift or that the God of the Bible gives people faith to follow other religions or gods. The gift of the Bible is Jesus Christ and forgiveness and eternal life through Him.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

People have faith in all kinds of things and must evaluate and decide what things to believe over other things. God presents the evidence in His word, in history, and through creation, and the human conscience and expects people to use reason and be willing to seek and submit to the truth.


Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool Isaiah 1:18

 

[74x12]

Scriptures are given by God. No one can understand the thoughts of God; except the Spirit of God.

Therefore you must have the Spirit of God to guide you or you will not understand.

Otherwise the scriptures will be to you like a letter in a language you cannot read. Or if you do know how to read it; then it will be as a letter that is sealed and cannot be opened.

 

[Milton Platt]

Here is the golden rule of Bible interpretation is, at least I thing it is a good rule of thumb...

When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.” –Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965) Founder of the Biblical Research Society

Which is sometimes shortened to...
When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense.



Well, the scriptures don't say that faith is God's gift or that the God of the Bible gives people faith to follow other religions or gods. The gift of the Bible is Jesus Christ and forgiveness and eternal life through Him.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

People have faith in all kinds of things and must evaluate and decide what things to believe over other things. God presents the evidence in His word, in history, and through creation, and the human conscience and expects people to use reason and be willing to seek and submit to the truth.


Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool Isaiah 1:18

But YOU said faith is a gift from god...........I was responding to your comments, not the Bible.

So then faith is NOT a gift from god? Okay. We agree again.

You failed to answer the question:
How can faith be a reliable path to truth if one can have faith in things that are not true?

We interpret things within our own paradigm. Do you really believe that when the Genesis story was made up, the person who wrote it down saw it as anything but literal? Why would they not believe it to be so? They had no knowledge of the age of the earth, or biology, etc. It has been taken literally for thousands of years untll science showed it was not true.

 

[Milton Platt]

Scriptures are given by God. No one can understand the thoughts of God; except the Spirit of God.

Therefore you must have the Spirit of God to guide you or you will not understand.

Otherwise the scriptures will be to you like a letter in a language you cannot read. Or if you do know how to read it; then it will be as a letter that is sealed and cannot be opened.

That’s a good dodge. Can you back it up with evidence?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Scriptures are given by God. No one can understand the thoughts of God; except the Spirit of God.

Therefore you must have the Spirit of God to guide you or you will not understand.

Otherwise the scriptures will be to you like a letter in a language you cannot read. Or if you do know how to read it; then it will be as a letter that is sealed and cannot be opened.

Sounds like a poor reason to justify your own interpretation. If two Christians have a different interpretation how do you tell which one is right?

 

[74x12]

Can you back it up with evidence?

What do you mean? Evidence as in what exactly?

 

[Milton Platt]

What do you mean? Evidence as in what exactly?

Demonstrate that Scriptures are given by a god and that there is a spirit of god, and that only certain people have this spirit thing and they are the only ones that can understand the scriptures.

 

[74x12]

If two Christians have a different interpretation how do you tell which one is right?

By not being too hasty and letting God show you.

 

[oldbadger]

I pray all the time that God would guide me and have me do his will. He doesn't do it. I even pray that he would govern my desire so that I only desire his will and only ask for what he wants me to ask for. He doesn't even grant that Grace.

Hi..........
Lots of different folks' writings were included in the bible, so it's best if you separate the books and treat them individually. After all, it was a bunch of chumps who decided what to include and what to vandalise.

Most people are full of pleas, demands and requests for themselves, and when they don't get anything they moan and rant like spoiled kids who asked Father Christmas for a real electric sit-in car and only got a dinky toy.

People should be realising that the mere fact that they ever got born to experience this life are more lucky than if they won the lottery three weeks in a row, but they want more. And then more, and then end up kicking their benefactor...... and claiming that everything all around is crappy.

I thank Fate each and every day for what life I have and have had.... that sentence from the bible sure does ring true to me.

 

[Milton Platt]

By not being too hasty and letting God show you.

I’ve been around for 68 years and can’t tell,them apart....how long does it take? I’ve noticed that Christains can’t sort it out either.

 

[Subduction Zone]

By not being too hasty and letting God show you.

Not a very reliable answer. One of the reasons that there are on the order of 40,000 sects of Christianity. It is almost as if there is no God to show anyone at all.

 

[74x12]

Demonstrate that Scriptures are given by a god and that there is a spirit of god, and that only certain people have this spirit thing and they are the only ones that can understand the scriptures.

You're the jury this time. I'm not here to make an entire case. I'm just one witness.

The defendant (the Bible) says it is given by inspiration from God. (2 Timothy 3:16) And as it says of itself in so many words and in various places: no one will understand unless understanding is given to them by God.

I’ve been around for 68 years and can’t tell,them apart....how long does it take? I’ve noticed that Christains can’t sort it out either.

No offense, but that answer was for those with the Spirit. So that you don't think I'm some kind of an elitist: The Gift is for anyone who will. Offers always on the table. (Rev. 22:17)

Not a very reliable answer. One of the reasons that there are on the order of 40,000 sects of Christianity. It is almost as if there is no God to show anyone at all.

Those sheep who follow the good Shepherd and are close to the good Shepherd don't get lost. It's the ones who follow other sheep or other shepherds that might get lost.

Why do sheep ask other sheep? Some might be wolves in sheep's clothing!

It's those who take their eyes off Jesus and look on the wind and the waves. They'll begin to sink. Poor Peter forgot his name meant "rock". Rocks normally sink! He was walking on the water and had nothing to be afraid of.

Wind, waves, confusion! That is the collusion of mass delusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're the jury this time. I'm not here to make an entire case. I'm just one witness.

The defendant (the Bible) says it is given by inspiration from God. (2 Timothy 3:16) And as it says of itself in so many words and in various places: no one will understand unless understanding is given to them by God.

No offense, but that answer was for those with the Spirit. So that you don't think I'm some kind of an elitist: The Gift is for anyone who will. Offers always on the table. (Rev. 22:17)

Those sheep who follow the good Shepherd and are close to the good Shepherd don't get lost. It's the ones who follow other sheep or other shepherds that might get lost.

Why do sheep ask other sheep? Some might be wolves in sheep's clothing!

It's those who take their eyes off Jesus and look on the wind and the waves. They'll begin to sink. Poor Peter forgot his name meant "rock". Rocks normally sink! He was walking on the water and had nothing to be afraid of.

Wind, waves, confusion! That is the collusion of mass delusion.

And yet one of the favorite accusations of some Christians about others is that they "are not true Christians" and I have seen that go both ways. What I asked for was a reliable way to tell which interpretation is the correct one and it appears that you can't think of one.

 

[74x12]

And yet one of the favorite accusations of some Christians about others is that they "are not true Christians" and I have seen that go both ways. What I asked for was a reliable way to tell which interpretation is the correct one and it appears that you can't think of one.

I see what you're saying. I do have the answer. Whoever comes to the knowledge of the truth will be taught by God Himself. That is how they know the truth. Because God is their Teacher.

It could be anyone.

John 6:45

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see what you're saying. I do have the answer. Whoever comes to the knowledge of the truth will be taught by God Himself. That is how they know the truth. Because God is their Teacher.

It could be anyone.

John 6:45

The problem is that your answer fails for many reasons. One is that others may not put the same value on that verse that you do. You need something stronger than circular reasoning that only supports your personal views.