Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God never changes but His messages change in every new age.
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The Bible Is A Heavily Outdated Book
- Thread starter Only Reason
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Whatever new situations that have arisen (or will arise in the future) are dealt with by the UHJ (Universal House of Justice), who have been given the authority to legislate on matters that are not addressed in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
I cannot argue with that.
Well, you already know what I believe about who the Spirit of Truth was, so there is no need to reiterate that.
Brian2
Veteran Member
God does not change but times change and God has brought in His New Covenant for both Gentiles and Jews also, anyone who wants to be in it.
God's OT laws are based on love, the character of God. It can be hard to see that at times with some of those laws but in context it is based on love. The New Covenant also is about love and God guiding us through His Spirit in us and not through a set of written laws.
Science created bombs that kill every man, woman, child and animal on a mega scale. Glory be to science.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Sounds like a man made system with fallible men in charge,,,,,,,,,,,,, and surely you agree that the UHJ is not infallible.
The New Covenant, the everlasting one that Jesus brought in, (Hebrews 13:20, Rev 14:6) is better and it is that God gives us His Spirit to reside in and with us forever to guide us. (Ezek 36:27, Isa 59:21)
Well, you already know what I believe about who the Spirit of Truth was, so there is no need to reiterate that.
Yes I believe what the Bible tells us about the Spirit of Truth and you believe what Baha'i tells you that the Bible tells us,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but it doesn't, you can check.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
It also cures more childhood cancers than religion does.
Medication can delay death, only God can raise us up to a greater good life after death.
Both science and religion can be used for good or evil. The people in Ukraine live with the effects of both bombs and medication.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
To be fair, the Bible doe contain some fairly profound morality, 'love your enemies' for example.
But it also contains some pretty horrible morality as well.
Funny that humans can conceive such a range of good and evil and give it divine authority.
But it also contains some pretty horrible morality as well.
Funny that humans can conceive such a range of good and evil and give it divine authority.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And how many people have been killed in the name of "God"?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God does not change but times change, and God has brought in His New Covenant for anyone who wants to be in it.
It is called the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Baha'i belief is that the UHJ is infallible while in session. As I recall, that comes from Baha'u'llah's Writings..
Practically speaking, how would the Holy Spirit 'living inside' people change the world? Do you have a plan in place? The Baha'is do.
The New Covenant is not everlasting since it was replaced by the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.
The Bible does not 'tell you' that the Spirit of Truth is what you believe it is, you just interpret the Bible to mean what you already believe the Spirit of Truth is, according to Christian doctrine.Yes I believe what the Bible tells us about the Spirit of Truth and you believe what Baha'i tells you that the Bible tells us,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but it doesn't, you can check.
If you post the verses I can explain what I mean. You have to misinterpret many other verses in order to believe that the Spirit of Truth is what you believe it is, the Holy Spirit sent at Pentecost.
George Bush may well have said God Bless America when he went off to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq. That was the will of George, not of God. Many Christians protested against the wars, but George called it a crusade against terror.
God commanded us to love all our neighbours, he said we should love and pray for our enemies, and we should forgive. George went against the greatest commandments, so how could he justify he was going to war in God's name?
At some point, George will stand before God. My hope is, that he will have to face all the innocent people who suffered and died as a result of his orders.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
If the born-again Christians are correct, Jesus being the only way to have one's sins forgiven will never be outdated. If that is not true, then it was outdated from the beginning, because it was a belief made up by the NT writers.
Brian2
Veteran Member
What horrible morality does the Bible teach?
Brian2
Veteran Member
Which Covenant is the eternal covenant at Hebrews 13:20?
Brian2
Veteran Member
Don't forget the covenant of Muhammad and The Bab.
From your link: The Bahá’í Faith began with the mission entrusted by God to two Divine Messengers—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. Today, the distinctive unity of the Faith They founded stems from explicit instructions given by Bahá’u’lláh that have assured the continuity of guidance following His passing.This line of succession, referred to as the Covenant, went from Bahá’u’lláh to His Son ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and then from ‘Abdu’l-Bahá to His grandson, Shoghi Effendi, and the Universal House of Justice, ordained by Bahá’u’lláh. A Bahá’í accepts the divine authority of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh and of these appointed successors.
Really, the covenant of Baha'u'llah is no more than a line of succession?
I suppose that means that any schisms in Baha'i would have to be in the Universal House of Justice.
Brian2
Veteran Member
What? No I don't believe it, you disagree with the Bible?
But wait, how can you say that if you also say that the gospel of Jesus is still in force today? The Gospel is the New Covenant.
Jesus spoke to His disciples and promised them the Spirit of Truth to be with them forever, and that this Spirit of Truth would live with and in them.
John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Another promise to those disciples:
John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 15:26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
The Spirit of Truth reminded them of what Jesus said (testified to them) and they testified the same thing to the world.
Baha'u'llah says that he is the Spirit of Truth that was promised to come and live in the disciples of 2000 years ago.
Brian2
Veteran Member
The only way to the Father is through the Son. The Son is the judge of all and Matt 25:31ff seems to be saying that not all non Christians will be condemned.
But sincere Christians receive forgiveness in this life and avoid the judgement.
People can be born again and enter the Kingdom at the judgement it seems.
You are not wrong on the whole, but your argument is fallacious. In other words the argument must be made by someone more familiar with the books in question, and there are nuances as many other posters have mentioned. There is also a value to its antiquity, provided that we can extract the value.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What is the everlasting covenant Hebrews 13?
Hebrews 13:20 refers to the blood of the everlasting covenant, which of course is Jesus' blood. Hebrews 9:12 says that Jesus entered once for all into the holy place by his own blood, having obtained an eternal redemption. Jesus' blood, the blood of the new covenant, obtained an “eternal” redemption.Mar 30, 2015
What is “The Eternal Covenant” in Hebrews 13:20? (Fred G. Zaspel)
The way I interpret that is that Jesus saved us once and for all with His blood, and that is confirmed in the Baha'i Writings.
Look what I found in my saved files:
TrueBeliever37 said: ↑
In the old testament God said that there was going to be another covenant or testament. But he said it would be an everlasting covenant. You are saying it is not and has been replaced.
Baha’is believe that there is an everlasting covenant which remains in force today. It will never be replaced.
The overall covenant God made with His followers in Judaism, known to Jews as the Mosaic Covenant, and to Christians as the Old Covenant, put forth the stipulation of the oneness of God – “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exodus 20:2) – as the primary law of the Ten Commandments. In exchange for following those principles, God promised that he would never leave His followers without guidance:
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid … for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. – Deuteronomy 31:6.
This eternal covenant between God and humanity, the Baha’i teachings say, remains in force today. The Creator has bestowed bounties on us all, and in return asks us to recognize His prophets and messengers and abide by their laws and spiritual principles. The Baha’i teachings joyously celebrate that covenant:
How to Understand the Baha’i Covenant
The everlasting covenant is like the umbrella which covers all religions. It began with Moses and it will last forever.
In addition to that covenant, the Messengers of God make a Covenant with their followers. This is called the Greater Covenant.
Jesus made a Covenant with His followers, which applies only to Christians.
Baha'u'llah also made a Covenant with His followers, which applies only to Baha'is.
Greater covenant
The greater covenant refers to the covenant made between each messenger from God, which the literature of the Baháʼí Faith name Manifestations of God, and his followers regarding the coming of the next Manifestation from God.[1] According to Baháʼu'lláh, the founder of the Baháʼí Faith, God has promised that he will send a succession of messengers that will instruct humankind.[2] In Baháʼí belief, this covenant is seen to be expressed in prophecy in the religious scripture of each religion, and each Manifestation of God, such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Báb,[3] and Baháʼu'lláh, prophesied the next Manifestation.[1] In return, the followers of each religion are seen to have a duty to investigate the claims of the following Manifestations.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant of Baháʼu'lláh
The Lesser Covenant refers to succession of authority within each religion.
Lesser Covenant
This is the covenant that is made regarding the successorship of authority within the religion.[1] In Baháʼí belief the manner in which the Covenant of Baháʼu'lláh was clearly put forth is seen as being a fundamental defining feature of the religion and a powerful protector of the unity of the Baháʼí Faith and its adherents.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant of Baháʼu'lláh
Baha'is believe that the keys to the Kingdom were handed over to Peter. Jesus says this to Peter: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (16:19). Baha'is believe that means that Jesus made a verbal Covenant with Peter and thus we uphold and defend the primacy of Peter as the Prince of the Apostles.
However, that authority was not upheld within the Church because there was no written Covenant as there is in the Baha'i Faith, and that is why Christianity split into hundreds of sects. That will never happen to the Baha'i Faith because Baha'is are faithful to the Covenant if Baha'u'llah, and if anyone tries to break away and start another religion and call it the Baha'i Faith are removed from membership by the Universal House of Justice and deemed Convent-breakers.